WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Aldarc]

@Bedrockgames, I will reply later but this time you are attributing something that I wrote to Hussar.

 

[Bedrockgames]

To be honest, I think the majority if not all of Bruce Lee movies count as American made and not Chinese, and in fact they had their share of criticism in the past and present.

This isn't true. Most of his movies were Chinese Golden Harvest movies. Raymond Chow produced the Big Boss, Fists of Fury; Raymond Chow and Bruce Lee produced Way of the Dragon. Enter the Dragon was a joint US and Chinese production (there were quite a few movies that did this), and Game of Death was, I believe, a Chinese production as well.

 

[Wulfhelm]

Imagine if the baseline PHB was written so that all the classes were given French names, the equipment list was in French, 90% of the monsters and playable races were from French mythology, then devoted about 10% of the material to the rest of Europe, completely ignoring, say, Vikings and English mythology, and then claimed to be "European Medieval Fantasy Adventures". People would lose their collective minds. The book would be absolutely pilloried.

Hm. On the other hand, in my experience, the default picture of "medieval Europe" in American gamers' minds is almost solely based on the British isles, with some Viking or French aspects (because they bordered, in a manner of speaking, that area), and the rest of Europe, which is its large majority, basically not present.
So, not really that much of a difference there. Even today, a medieval fantasy setting with a more "slavic" or "mediterranean" flavor would be considered exotic.

And, moving into the present day, that's, for me anyway, the biggest issue with OA. That it's "Oriental Adventures" as seen through the lens of American writers funneled through Japanese history and culture. It's very culturally chauvinistic.

Well, it was the 80s. There was already a lot of literature available on Japanese history back then, with Japan being seen as a.) a defeated enemy turned major ally, b.) a dominant economic force and specifically c.) a potential market for OA.
China was, at the time, considered a comparably backwards Communist country just barely crawling out of the wreckage of Maoism. Chinese culture was mostly perceived through British Hong Kong. The idea of ever marketing RPGs or any western entertainment products to "Red China" was pretty far-fetched at the time.

And all other countries in Asia barely registered on America's cultural radar at all. Which is probably why in the original OA there were two versions each of Fantasy China and Fantasy Japan, but no Fantasy Korea, Fantasy Cambodia, Fantasy Bali or what have you.

 

[Bedrockgames]

@Bedrockgames, I will reply later but this time you are attributing something that I wrote to Hussar.

Sorry!

 

[Danzauker]

This isn't true. Most of his movies were Chinese Golden Harvest movies. Raymond Chow produced the Big Boss, Fists of Fury; Raymond Chow and Bruce Lee produced Way of the Dragon. Enter the Dragon was a joint US and Chinese production (there were quite a few movies that did this), and Game of Death was, I believe, a Chinese production as well.

I might well be wrong. I remember reading something time ago that said that many Chinese viewed Bruce Lee as a sort of a "turncoat" for doing martial arts "the American way".

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I might well be wrong. I remember reading something time ago that said that many Chinese viewed Bruce Lee as a sort of a "turncoat" for doing martial arts "the American way".

It's that he eschewed tradition, and believed that the best martial art was the one that won (mix & match styles, etc.).

It's kind of a forerunner to today's MMA.

 

[MGibster]

Again, it's the question of punching down. Muslims in America and Canada have hardly had it all that easy for the past couple of decades. Kicking them while they're down is just lazy comedy and, well, not all that funny.

Look forward to the day when you can make Mohammed jokes and not be seen as a racist dick and then you'll know that we've achieved a level of equality in our society.

You do realize South Park and others didn't stop making fun of/criticizing Islam because it was punching down, right? They stopped doing it because of threats of violence.

 

[Danzauker]

It's that he eschewed tradition, and believed that the best martial art was the one that won (mix & match styles, etc.).

So you're saying that it didn't care much about truthfulness to culture and tradition (including his own), he just picked up and mixed the elements he liked ad didn't care about what traditionalists would say?

Boy, I'd so like that he would design role playing games besides martial arts...

 

[Mirtek]

For what it's worth, in an RPG setting that specifically wants to be biker or Cowboy themed, i'd expect and welcome seeing bottles or billiard sticks on the weapons table.

Stuff like a bottle counting as a simple weapon (club) for the first hit before turning into a simple weapon (dagger) for the second hit before becoming unuseable after the second hit is exactly the stuff that should be in such a setting book.

 

[Mirtek]

You do realize South Park and others didn't stop making fun of/criticizing Islam because it was punching down, right? They stopped doing it because of threats of violence.

That's true unfortunately but also why i am now regret chosing this as an example.

I in no way wanted to associate people who complain about mashed up depiction of asian culture to violent islamist.

I'd just wanted to point to the depiction of Jesus in SP against the complaint of a large number of people as an sample of how you do not have to comply with all feelings of being insulted