Dungeons & Dragons Releases New Unearthed Arcana Subclasses, Strongly Hinting at Dark Sun

Wizards of the Coast has released four new D&D subclasses for playtesting, all of which have heavy thematic ties to the post-apocalyptic Dark Sun setting. The four subclasses, released as "Apocalyptic Subclasses," include the Circle of Preservation Druid, the Gladiator Fighter, the Defiled Sorcerer, and the Sorcerer-King Patron Warlock. Although not stated outright, the Gladiator and Sorcerer-King Patron are explicit nods to the Dark Sun setting, set in a ruined world ruled by Sorcerer-Kings where gladiatorial fights were common.

The Circle of Preservation Druid creates areas of preserved land that grants buffs to those who stand upon it. The Gladiator adds secondary Weapon Mastery properties to their attacks, with bonus abilities. Notably, the Gladiator uses Charisma as its secondary stat. The Defiled Sorcerer can expend its hit dice to amp up damage to its attacks and can also steal the life of its targets to deal additional damage. The Sorcerer-King Patron gains a number of abilities tying into tyranny and oppression, with the ability to cast Command as a Bonus Action without expending a spell slot, causing targets to gain the Frightened Condition, and forcing those who attack them to re-roll successful attacks.

The survey for the subclasses goes live on August 28th.

 

[Parmandur]

So it's a cynical guess?

Ok. Nothing wrong with that, but it's nothing more than that. I think it's unlikely it's only that myself, because we're looking at 4 subclasses here + potentially all the psychic subclasses from the other UA (I don't think even WotC will try and make us by Dark Sun and a Psionics book, this isn't the 1990s) + potentially races + probably spells + probably a bunch of monsters + backgrounds etc. etc. and I don't WotC are going to devalue that by making it an adventure.

Now, they might also make it not just a Dark Sun book - as I said earlier it could be an apocalypse-themed book that presents Dark Sun as an example or something.

The Paionics UA had a boatload of Psionic Feats called "Wild Talents," and the UA said each "Wild Talent" would be the core for a new Background. Easy to see Dark Sun on that, too.

 

[Scribe]

I really, truly does not, and no, we likely won't agree. But, after having spent the last decade watching this exact attitude absolutely ruin one of the most important fandoms in my life, I've still at least got to try.

See, that attitude exists because corps are factually ruining the IPs of our childhood.

When 40K is finally ruined I will likely slip into a depression. As comical as that is.

Anyway, not looking to fight we just disagree.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I mean, it's objectively worse than a Battlemaster, I think it can be demonstrated.

Brutality is:

CHA bonus uses/Rest
1/round
No inherent damage bonus
Bleed = +CHA damage and Sap. Sap = Disadvantage on next 1 attack by target
Bluff = Advantage on your next saving throw and Vex. Vex = Advantage on your next 1 attack
Stumble = Topple + Target can only take Action or Bonus Action not both (this latter is meaningless for a lot of monsters, not all). Topple = Prone if they fail a CON save.

Those aren't like, total trash. They're okay. If Battlemaster didn't exist, they'd be good.

But it does!

BM Manuevers are:
4/rest at L1, 5/rest at 7, 6/rest at 15.
(So pretty much always 1 more than CHA bonus uses/Rest even pushing CHA with ASIs as hard as possible)
1/attack
(so insanely higher than Brutality's 1/round, note - it's not even 1/turn, it's 1/round - so if you used on your turn, you can't use on on OA or the like)
I'm not going to go through every BM manuever, but you've got crazy choices instead of just three, pretty all the ones which damage the enemy do +BM die damage (instead of only one of them doing even +CHA damage), and the BM die scales up at L10 and L18, and again, averages 0.5-1.5 points higher than CHA is going to get you (even pushing ASIs).

The same pattern continues - the abilities are very like BM abilities, but generally worse.

I think they just need to tune it up slightly, like put +CHA damage on all three Brutalities, give Bleed something else, etc. I re-read Flourish Parry and it's better than I thought because it's usable any time you have a Reaction. The counter is weird - they made it 1/Long Rest but you reactivate it with a Short Rest ability. Probably should just make it Short Rest and still Reactivatable, but they're doing the classic WotC thing of overvaluing a limited extra attack.

The battlemaster is better but the additional masteries are in addition to an existing mastery.
So round 1 fighting with a cleave weapon,
Bleed: + Cha damage to target 1 and Sap and make a cleave attack on another creature
etc,
That is, it is an additional mastery effect.

"...in addition to a different mastery property you’re using with that weapon,"

Probably best used with a cleave or push weapon or two weapon fighting and nick.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Because the fond memories of your youth must be mined as nostalgia bait for the latest flavourless grey goop that WoTC and its corporate masters will serve you. Don't ask questions, consume content.

There's also the opposite - nostalgia that so colors opinion in some that beside it everything new is considered to be "gray goop", no matter how colorful it actually may be (admittedly, sometimes it is gray, but nowhere near as consistently as some would have you believe). Sometimes people have rose-tinted glasses for the past, and exchange them for gray-tinted ones for the present and future.

I mean, there are people around here will defend THAC0, of all things, and say it was easier and better than the current system introduced in 3e...

 

[Sacrosanct]

It really does, but we likely won't agree.

Help me understand, because I feel like I'm missing something. How does refining Dark Sun take away anything from you? I'm an old school fan, started in '81, and I've never felt that something was taken away from me when it changed down the road. If something went a direction I didn't really like, I just kept playing the version I did like.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

I like these subclasses! Sorcerer and Fighter are standouts to me. Druid might be a little underpowered, but I'm not worried about that class being too weak. I can't quite judge the power level of the Warlock...but it feels undertuned.

 

[Mistwell]

I mean, it's objectively worse than a Battlemaster, I think it can be demonstrated.

Brutality is:

CHA bonus uses/Rest
1/round
No inherent damage bonus
Bleed = +CHA damage and Sap. Sap = Disadvantage on next 1 attack by target
Bluff = Advantage on your next saving throw and Vex. Vex = Advantage on your next 1 attack
Stumble = Topple + Target can only take Action or Bonus Action not both (this latter is meaningless for a lot of monsters, not all). Topple = Prone if they fail a CON save.

Those aren't like, total trash. They're okay. If Battlemaster didn't exist, they'd be good.

But it does!

BM Manuevers are:
4/rest at L1, 5/rest at 7, 6/rest at 15.
(So pretty much always 1 more than CHA bonus uses/Rest even pushing CHA with ASIs as hard as possible)
1/attack
(so insanely higher than Brutality's 1/round, note - it's not even 1/turn, it's 1/round - so if you used on your turn, you can't use on on OA or the like)
I'm not going to go through every BM manuever, but you've got crazy choices instead of just three, pretty all the ones which damage the enemy do +BM die damage (instead of only one of them doing even +CHA damage), and the BM die scales up at L10 and L18, and again, averages 0.5-1.5 points higher than CHA is going to get you (even pushing ASIs).

The same pattern continues - the abilities are very like BM abilities, but generally worse.

I think they just need to tune it up slightly, like put +CHA damage on all three Brutalities, give Bleed something else, etc. I re-read Flourish Parry and it's better than I thought because it's usable any time you have a Reaction. The counter is weird - they made it 1/Long Rest but you reactivate it with a Short Rest ability. Probably should just make it Short Rest and still Reactivatable, but they're doing the classic WotC thing of overvaluing a limited extra attack.

IF you're going Charisma focused and use Point Buy, you have a +4 bonus by level 4, and can be +5 by level 6 (because fighters get more ASIs). Then at level 15 they get additional uses equal to Second Wind + Action Surge, which is 5 at level 15 and then 6 at level 17. So except for level 3, the Gladiator will be equal to or ahead of Battlemaster in uses. Here is the chart:

As for choices, given it's a weapon master IN ADDITION TO existing weapon mastery, AND an extra benefit on top of that, I'd say they're all equal to or superior to Battle Master maneuvers. I'd say at least half the BM options rarely if ever see use at a table. We all know the good ones, and they're about where these Brutality ones are at.

Battlemaster also gets essentially crap abilities beyond level 3, until they get to level 15. Meanwhile the Gladiator level 7 ability is killer, and the level 10 abilities are all powerful. Level 15 mentioned above, and level 18 is potentially good but a bit weird the way it's done right now.

I'd say Gladiator is at least equal to Battlemaster

 

[Demetrios1453]

Help me understand, because I feel like I'm missing something. How does refining Dark Sun take away anything from you? I'm an old school fan, started in '81, and I've never felt that something was taken away from me when it changed down the road. If something went a direction I didn't really like, I just kept playing the version I did like.

I'm assuming validation in that it's the "official" version.

I guess for me as a long, long term Doctor Who fan, it helps in this sort of thing that the show purposely reinvents itself every few years. If you don't like what you see now, well, you still have what you liked in the past (well, other than those episodes in the '60s they wiped due to sheer incompetence), and something new you may like will probably come along in the future. As for what I don't like, just shrug and be happy for those who do like it. It's the same for D&D for me.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

Gladiator looks fun and flavorful. I don't care particularly if it's exactly as powerful as Battlemaster or any other subclass. Close enough is good enough.

 

[DarkCrisis]

It really was not played down.

Having ran it. It really really was.