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Dungeon's new pirates of the caribbean series

If Orcus taking over wasn't one of the reasons for having Savage Tide be about Demogorgon, I'd be very suprised.

I expect what'll happen is that the PCs will somehow split the two entities that together form Demogorgon, Orcus will claim the title Prince of Demons, and the two halves of DG will not be powerful enough to stop him.
 

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One last kick at the kitty. :)

In all honesty, I'm really not a history nazi. 99% of the stuff that people complain about doesn't bug me. And here's why: most of the problems are ones of style rather than substance. Take a recent picture in Dungeon for example that shows a guy with a syringe and glasses and a lab coat. This caused some ruffled feathers among the boards.

Me, I look at that and I say, well, a syringe was invented in about the 10th century, so, it "could" be part of a DnD setting even if it wasn't common, glasses were invented around the same time, so, again, it's possible. People in the Renaissance had the technology to make a lab coat, even if the styles were different. It wasn't that they couldn't do it, it's just that they didn't.

So, again, the problems become more about emulating history. I don't think DnD should emulate history, so, anachronistic styles don't bother me.

The ship thing, OTOH, does, although, apparently, I'm very much in the minority here. It's not simply a style thing. You couldn't have a sloop in the Renaissance any more than you could have an aircraft carrier. The technology just wasn't there. There is no way that you could build this ship using that period's technology. It can't be done.

That's, I guess, why it bothers me so much. I can live with full plate, and crossbows. Sure, they're a bit late, but, meh, not so much. Renaissance technology isn't going to radically alter DnD any more than it already has. Renaissance philosophy on the other hand... but that's a different issue. And, again, the technology and the philosophy don't necessarily have to follow.

But, to build a ship like this takes a very high level of technology. Rennaisance ships are clinker built - the boards of the hull are overlapping. A sloop's hull is fitted, each plank is joiced (sp) with its neighbours. This takes very specialized tools, a serious dry dock and some very advanced skills. If you have the tools and the skills to build a sloop, you can build a lot of other things. And, remember, a sloop is a very small ship for the time. If I can build a sloops, I can build an English Ship of the Line with 100 guns and carry about 800 men. This is some SERIOUS firepower.

I know, most people don't know and don't care. So, at the end of the day, this is my own personal axe to grind. It just bothers me that if you're going to do something, why do a half assed job of it and not do any of the research. One of the reasons I really like Buccaneers and Bokor is that they at least attempt to capture the history of the period. I'm not asking for PhD disertations on the history of sail. I'm asking that artists and designers pick up a couple of history books and use ships that actually fit the period, rather than ships which are so badly out of place.
 

Hussar said:
But, to build a ship like this takes a very high level of technology. Rennaisance ships are clinker built - the boards of the hull are overlapping. A sloop's hull is fitted, each plank is joiced (sp) with its neighbours. This takes very specialized tools, a serious dry dock and some very advanced skills. If you have the tools and the skills to build a sloop, you can build a lot of other things. And, remember, a sloop is a very small ship for the time. If I can build a sloops, I can build an English Ship of the Line with 100 guns and carry about 800 men. This is some SERIOUS firepower.

I know, most people don't know and don't care. So, at the end of the day, this is my own personal axe to grind. It just bothers me that if you're going to do something, why do a half assed job of it and not do any of the research. One of the reasons I really like Buccaneers and Bokor is that they at least attempt to capture the history of the period. I'm not asking for PhD disertations on the history of sail. I'm asking that artists and designers pick up a couple of history books and use ships that actually fit the period, rather than ships which are so badly out of place.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Hussar. It has long been one of my sticking points as well. I look forward to the Pirates adventure of Dungeon, and hope for some nice floorplans of Santa Maria type ships.

Or maybe one of Admiral Zheng He's ships.
 
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Personally I think that they are trying to promote off shot books like Stormwrack, which deals exclusively with the sea campaign. On the other side of the coin, I think it couold be refreshing to have a sea faring game cause you get to explore some classes you might not normally try, like the duelist or the dread pirate or the sea witch.

I'm kind of excited about it. I just wish I could play it rather than have to DM it :(
 

This reminds me of a story told on the Lord of the Rings extended DVD behind the scenes documentary.

Where John Howe complained about another artists armor sketch, about it being wrong, armor don't work that way. John being a HUGE armor, reinactment, fellow.

Well, that other artist (I forget his name) who was big into animals (Having some sort of zooilogical degree) complained that John's fell beast was all wrong cause 'wings don't work that way'; and John's responce, somewhat kiddingly, was 'shut up, its fantasy!'



As an artist, I agree, when doing any kind of work, there should be research involved for refrence. But I admit, I wouldn't know the difference between different ships, as long as it has sails, I wouldn't care. Who is to say what an impact magic has on sailing/engineering technology, how much more 'advanced' they would be. It's fantasy.

I wouldn't put gunports on, though.
 


And here is a comparison to one of Admiral Zheng He's treasure ships, ca 1420:
 

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Heh, the history behind the Chinese navy is really facinating. If the forces within China hadn't been so inward looking, history would have been VERY different. The Chinese had ships which were miles ahead of anything contemporary in the water.

They still didn't have gun ports though. :)
 

I have to say.. I'm getting more and more excited about this path the more I follow this thread and the more information I dig up.. I ordered the new Dungeon issue that has the overview to see if it suits me... I just might have to try and convince my group to give it a shot some time (maybe if our current DM gets tired of his campaign). My group are all big fans of Pirates of the Caribbean (we went as a group to see Dead Man's Chest on opening day), but I have the feeling I'd have to include firearms to make it even more like PotC. That and of course trying to get them to not think it's a series of modules (which they hate for the railroady-ness) and not make characters that don't fit the theme/setting and then complain when they don't fit in...
 


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