DUNGEON's NEW STAT BLOCK FORMAT

[Grazzt]

Now, forgive my ignorance here, but aren't there decent programs out there now that can generate accurate statblocks for NPCs and (for the most part) Monsters as well? I mean, even if the program got you 90% of the way there and 10% you had to figure out by hand, I'd think that'd be well worth it. In this day and age I'm puzzled why you'd want to do it by hand (for publication) considering the inherent complexity.

Are they too complicated? Don't meet enough requirements?

Just curious...

Sean Reynolds has a spreadsheet he uses (or used). I designed one (based of off and expanded from SKR's) for my own use as well. Calculates skill points, # of feats, bonus hp based on feats, monster type (like Construct extra hp), all bonuses, penalties, adjustments to skills, abilities, SA, SQ, spells, psionics, SLA (spell-like abilities, including all DCs) and spits everything out into two separate stat blocks: one like the standard MM layout and another in the style that Necromancer Games uses for its modules/books.

Sean's has/had an option to show work too, so you could see where the modifiers, adjustments, etc came from. Mine does it too, in the sheet, but it doesnt spit that stuff out in the end.

(Just "finished" it a few months ago actually where it will now allow you to stack character classes, up to 7 max, on top of the monster/race/whatever).

Im pretty sure WotC uses a spreadsheet or proggie to do some of the stat block stuff (maybe all of it, maybe just skills, not sure). Someone mentioned something like that before (maybe it was SKR or Monte, I dont recall actually).

 

[EricNoah]

I've got eTools doing this (see links). It's getting close to the way I want it (it doesn't follow DUNGEON precisely). This will copy/paste nicely into Word.

http://webpages.charter.net/ericnoah/noahrpg/grell.html

http://webpages.charter.net/ericnoah/noahrpg/mephit.html

Unfortunately, it was never set up to know which SQ items are defensive, which ones are "senses", which feats apply to AC, which magic items might apply to saves or AC, etc. So I had to make a master list of words it looks for when it combs through the list of class features, feats, magic items, and racial special qualities to decide what goes where; and even then there will be some adjustments by hand afterwards if I decide I want to call out a certain item in a different part of the stat block. And my skill with xsl is limited (I can follow patterns and cut/paste but can't really do anything new unless I see it done first).

 

[GlassJaw]

Reverse engineer the stat block.

Well that's what I usually do. What I meant was other than reverse engineering, how do you know the stat block is correct? As someone mentioned previously in the thread, I want all the stats or none, regardless of how important they are to the encounter.

 

[S'mon]

Indeed, I think John's work has been immensely helpful and I can't imagine a single gamer not appreciating it. Hell, we need more guys like him out there!

As a product buyer, the kind of stat block critique I would really appreciate is:

"This CR 20 BBEG is totally inappropriate for this level 10 scenario. As GM you *must* redo it if you don't want a TPK. Here's a suggestion..."

I don't think I have ever seen such a critique.

The kind of stat block critique I do _not_ appreciate is:

"This CR 20 BBEG has 2 extra ranks in Kno (Arcana)"

That kind of critique seems very common. Which is strange because as well as being poitnless I'd think this must take more effort than the first, which would actually be useful. I guess some people just enjoy finding tiny errors.

 

[A'koss]

As a product buyer, the kind of stat block critique I would really appreciate is:

"This CR 20 BBEG is totally inappropriate for this level 10 scenario. As GM you *must* redo it if you don't want a TPK. Here's a suggestion..."

I don't think I have ever seen such a critique.

This kind of adventure playtest critique is a good idea, we see many adventure threads here that often cover those sorts of problems, but certainly doesn't invalidate the broader stat block checking work being done out there (monster manuals, supplements, etc. in addition to adventures).

The kind of stat block critique I do _not_ appreciate is:

"This CR 20 BBEG has 2 extra ranks in Kno (Arcana)"

That kind of critique seems very common. Which is strange because as well as being poitnless I'd think this must take more effort than the first, which would actually be useful. I guess some people just enjoy finding tiny errors.

This mentality I just don't understand - this work is being done for your benefit and if it helps keep designers more on thier toes, hell, I'm all for it. It's not like they're making you find all these mistakes, so what's the problem? If you don't care about this kind of accuracy - ignore it! To not want it yourself I can understand but to disparage that work saddens me greatly. :\

A'koss.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Reverse engineer the stat block. If the monster/NPC/whatever has 3 extra hit points (above its standard hp plus any Con bonus), then chances are very good Toughness is included.

For example, a monster/NPC with Con 14 and 3d8+9 HD (22 hp) has Toughness included..pretty easy to spot as its Con bonus X HD is +6. So, the extra +3 tacked on has to be from toughness (or some really bad math )

Same with saves. Reverse engineer. If a save is +2 higher than it should be, chances are good again its because of a feat (Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude).

I can see the benefit of doign so, but isn't one of the reasons people buy stuff is so that the 'engineering' is done for them? For every suspicious stat block I have to read over, it's time I could be painting a pawn of harassing a paladin with imps.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I think all feats, skill ranks, etc. should be listed in the stat block regardless of format.

And it's funny that Monte singled out Filge's stat block as containing extraneous information, because Filge is specifically designed to survive the encounter and potentially join the PCs in the next adventure. Any NPC who could end up adventuring alongside the PCs absolutely needs all of his information available. What if the PCs wants Filge to make them some more syringes (Brew Potion)? What if they pick his brain regarding something they found (Knowledge Arcana)? Etc.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Any NPC who could end up adventuring alongside the PCs absolutely needs all of his information available. What if the PCs wants Filge to make them some more syringes (Brew Potion)? What if they pick his brain regarding something they found (Knowledge Arcana)? Etc.

IMO, then put that stuff in the appendix with a compilation of the full-blown information of everything for every NPC, not the body of the adventure. Shortened stat blocks more appropriate in the body of the adventure text.

Then there is something for those who must reverse-engineer it to see if it all was done correctly, and there where it isn't needed, it doesn't clutter the information making it too difficult to use for those who don't micro-analyze the stats.

 

[GlassJaw]

then put that stuff in the appendix with a compilation of the full-blown information of everything for every NPC, not the body of the adventure. Shortened stat blocks more appropriate in the body of the adventure text.

I agree, and this is a great idea.

The problem is that with Dungeon, space is an issue. I can guarantee that there is no way they could repeat stats in the magazine, regardless of how "abridged" one of the stat blocks is. This would be great for a stand-alone module those, especially the mega-modules with appendices.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think all feats, skill ranks, etc. should be listed in the stat block regardless of format.

And it's funny that Monte singled out Filge's stat block as containing extraneous information, because Filge is specifically designed to survive the encounter and potentially join the PCs in the next adventure. Any NPC who could end up adventuring alongside the PCs absolutely needs all of his information available. What if the PCs wants Filge to make them some more syringes (Brew Potion)? What if they pick his brain regarding something they found (Knowledge Arcana)? Etc.

I disagree. If the game needs it to keep moving, then I can always assign him a few ranks. I can see the value in having fully fleshed out details, but as long as it's not an unknown listed that's effecting current values presented, I don't think it's a 'huge' issue.

Let me edit this... for home brewed stuff. As a GM, I don't need to know 100% of an NPC's abilities. Yes, cheating but... and for printed materials like Dungeon, yeah, it's good to have it all listed in the first place.