DUNGEON's NEW STAT BLOCK FORMAT

[Mark]

Ya know, someone pointed out to me, and I agree, that it's not really a Stat "Block" so much as a "listing", isn't it?

 

[S'mon]

Ket - you're obviously correct about computer UIDs - but really, most NPC stat blocks ought to be so brief & simple that this kind of issue never arises. Sure, keep the "full stat block" format consistent, but the minimal stat blocks covering everything that's really needed in play for most NPCs needn't be more than 1 line long. 2, tops.

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

I like it!!!!

I like the new format. I think this'll be the first issue of Dungeon I pick up since my sub expired.

I also say keep the full stat block. For homebrewed stats I leave out stuff like iron will and such, but for published I like to be shown everything. I don't know if it's just a part of me that likes to see it all or what? But keep the full block.

 

[Ketjak]

Ket - you're obviously correct about computer UIDs - but really, most NPC stat blocks ought to be so brief & simple that this kind of issue never arises. Sure, keep the "full stat block" format consistent, but the minimal stat blocks covering everything that's really needed in play for most NPCs needn't be more than 1 line long. 2, tops.

Well, it may not be obvious...

I think we agree, though - minimal stat blocks (something like "Rory Jenks, Blacksmith (LN Male human expert 3, craft (blacksmithing) +10, knowledge (local) +5") are cool. The question seems to be "what is 'minimal?'" (The follow-up seems to be "When do we use minimal stat blocks?") And if they're not minimal, it seems they should be comprehensive for flexibility (combat/social/resource generation). And if they're either, they should be accurate.

And for what it's worth, I like the new stat blocks better than the old, though I still begrudge the extra space they take. I know! Let's run them around the page in the margins!

 

[Monte At Home]

Ketjak,

Thanks. That's very interesting food for thought. I'm going to have to think about that some more. I'm not sure I'm convinced that a stat block is the equivalent of a user interface screen, but it's an interesting (and new, to me) way of looking at it.

(If you break RPGs down to their bare minimum components, an NPC you talk to, an NPC that you work with and an NPC that you fight are very, very different aspects of the game, and the basic rules treat them very differently. It's only when you put the trappings of the setting that they look like the same thing. It might be just as apt a comparison to say that they're more like a web browser, an email client and a spreadsheet--they do such different things that they need a different interface. [That analogy could use some work. It's the best I can do on short notice. Like I said, I need to think about this some more.])

 

[EricNoah]

Monte, you may be in the unique position of being the person who knows the D&D better than nearly anyone ever. That might make the need for consistent stat blocks unimportant to you.

But I agree with those who argue for consistency. As a DM, I'm juggling a ton of information; the less I have to hunt around for info, the faster the game goes.

I do think there might be room for a type of reduced stat block; instead of a "Feats" line it would be "Relevant Feats" and instead of "Skills" it might be "Relevant Skills." Same with SAs, SQs, Equipment/Gear, etc. Heck, you could eliminate listing any ability score that is not particularly low or high and that would be ok by me. Though again with ability damage coming in so many forms perhaps it is best to have all six stats listed...

I think in modern, full-color publishing the publishers should make good use of color to catch the eye. When I type up my own stat blocks in my adventures, I put everything important in colored text. AC is always red because it's the one thing I can never seem to find when I need it. Immunities and resistances are called out in purple or some other color so I can see them. The Dungeon stat format helps get the defense-related stuff and the offense related stuff into coherent chunks and I like that.

I also like anything that keeps me from having to flip open a rulebook during the game (for me, rulebooks are what I use during prep, not what I use during the game). I want monster and character stats spelled out to a certain degree, I ideally want relevant spell info pre-calculated (save DCs, damage, etc.). Same with magic items, traps, etc.

What chaps my hide is when the text takes the space to say "see the DMG for more information" or "works just like the XYZ spell in the PHB" when in just about the same amount of space they could just say what the darned thing does.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I do think there might be room for a type of reduced stat block; instead of a "Feats" line it would be "Relevant Feats" and instead of "Skills" it might be "Relevant Skills." Same with SAs, SQs, Equipment/Gear, etc. Heck, you could eliminate listing any ability score that is not particularly low or high and that would be ok by me. Though again with ability damage coming in so many forms perhaps it is best to have all six stats listed...

Great idea on labeling them as "Relevant [something]".

On the idea of trimming out ability scores that aren't either high or low... this would actually be a throwback to AD&D days, as I recall some of the entries for NPCs in old FR material would list ability scores next the the names of the NPC and only list the ability scores if they were something like 15 and higher, and extremely low scores in the rare case there was an NPC with them.

Maybe only list the ability scores that give bonuses or penalties (I guess the spread of non-bonus/penalty scores was larger than it is in 3.x...), but at that point you are even closer to justifying dumping ability scores completely in favor of exclusively using bonuses and penalties...

 

[Monte At Home]

As a DM, I'm juggling a ton of information; the less I have to hunt around for info, the faster the game goes.

Agreed! That's why the new stat block format is sooooo much better than the old one. With the old one, the AC, hit points, etc. just fall where they may in any given stat block, never in the same place in the "block."

I do think there might be room for a type of reduced stat block; instead of a "Feats" line it would be "Relevant Feats" and instead of "Skills" it might be "Relevant Skills." Same with SAs, SQs, Equipment/Gear, etc.

Again, I agree 100%.

I think in modern, full-color publishing the publishers should make good use of color to catch the eye.

I've been tinkering with the same sorts of ideas, actually.

I also like anything that keeps me from having to flip open a rulebook during the game (for me, rulebooks are what I use during prep, not what I use during the game). I want monster and character stats spelled out to a certain degree, I ideally want relevant spell info pre-calculated (save DCs, damage, etc.). Same with magic items, traps, etc.

This is a hard line to draw. On the one hand, if you can do it short and susinct, I'm with you 100%. But if you make an overly abbreviated, jumbled, or hard to read composite of a lot of information, I'd much rather just have a page reference to the core book the material, monster, item, spell, etc. can be found. Unaltered MM monsters, for example, I'll always want to use out the MM. The format used in that book was agonized over and redone a number of times, tested by players of all types to determine the easiest way to use monster info. The old stat blocks were never tested, and thrown together (by people other than the core design team at the time) at the last minute based on 2nd edition stat blocks more or less.

But I'm all for making the DM's life as easy as possible, so including appropriate calculated DCs and whatnot is always good.

 

[Erik Mona]

I think in modern, full-color publishing the publishers should make good use of color to catch the eye. When I type up my own stat blocks in my adventures, I put everything important in colored text. AC is always red because it's the one thing I can never seem to find when I need it. Immunities and resistances are called out in purple or some other color so I can see them.

A surprisingly large number of our readers are colorblind, and are not always able to read colored text. We still sometimes do it in headers and stuff, but it's something we've got to keep in mind. If all precast spells are listed in red, and someone can't see red (or whatever), I think that guy would be right to complain.

Also, speaking as the captain of the ship, adding a color-coding system for the magazine text would be like opening a Pandora's Box of potential errors, and is not worth the trouble, I'm afraid.

Other folks at other companies may very well disagree, and I wish them luck.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

 

[Sammael]

Having just converted three high-level NPCs to the new stat block as a test run, I can only say this: I LOVE IT. I never even bothered with the old statblock style, which was so cluttered to be nearly unusable; my previous NPC write-ups were similar to Monster Manual creature stats, but the new categorized format looks like it works a whole lot better. I hope future monster write-ups in D&D books will adopt this new format.