DUNGEON's NEW STAT BLOCK FORMAT

[Joshua Randall]

And now that copyright law has been mentioned, I give this thread about 3 more posts before it devolves into pointless bickering.

3...

 

[Stalker0]

I like the new stat blocks, but I'm hoping that relevent feat options will be listed much earlier in the block, like in those combat options sections.

One of the things I always forget about monsters is if they have dodge, divine might, quicken spell-like ability - ie feats that require my decisions to use and are not just absorbed into the stat block like iron will.

 

[EricNoah]

And now that copyright law has been mentioned, I give this thread about 3 more posts before it devolves into pointless bickering.

3...

Nah, there's no point in arguing over it -- there is no way WotC or Paizo or anyone else could protect the order/presentation of stat blocks by copyright law. Nor would they want to -- it would be ridiculous. So it's a moot point.

 

[James Jacobs]

I like the new stat blocks, but I'm hoping that relevent feat options will be listed much earlier in the block, like in those combat options sections.

One of the things I always forget about monsters is if they have dodge, divine might, quicken spell-like ability - ie feats that require my decisions to use and are not just absorbed into the stat block like iron will.

They will. Dodge and the like will show up on the AC line, Quicken Spell-like Abilitiy would show on the spell-like ability line, etc. We were still sorting out the formatting in issue #124, and that sorting is likely to continue for a few more issues until we've got a handle on the new stat blocks.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

OFF TOPIC: Looking at it made me wonder one thing now though...remember how 5 different saving throws became obsolete after 2nd ed? Ever wonder about ability scores? No, not that there needs to be fewer...but take a look at them right now..what do you have to calculate in your mind everytime you look at an ability score?...it's bonus...Anybody know where I'm going with this? Will 4th edition move to bonuses instead of the extra step in calculation? Will you have stats like this: Str+3, Dex+1,Con+2,Int-3,Wis+0,Cha+0. Is there any reason, other than nostalgia, why we stick to the 3-18 ability scores instead of using a bonus?

Personally, I'd prefer that the stat scores be retained, rather than being discarded and replaced simply by bonuses. Nostalgia? To some extent, but the 3-18 (or whatever) range gives more of an idea to me as to how strong, smart, etc. one character is in relation to another. Using just the bonuses makes the range too small, in my opinion. The trick is to come up with a way to make stat scores relevant beyond what they are already, but retain the ease of use of the bonuses.

 

[Mouseferatu]

This is the basis of Dungeon Crawl, a silly looting game I've been half-heartedly working on. Just multiply/divide by two to use standard d20 material. The objective of DC is to eliminate complexity. I've mentioned it in passing a few times here. (The name may change before release.)

Yep, I've seen you mention it.

And ground my teeth in the process, because Dungeon Crawl is also the (tentative, working) title of the Basic D20 game I've been puttering around with in my spare time!



Seriously, I'm not too worried about it. I have doubts that my DC will see the light of day, since I can't devote all that much time to it without a paid contract. And while it, like yours, is intended to simplify game play, I'm not even remotely taking the same route it sounds like you are. So it shouldn't be a big deal for me to change the name on the off chance it comes up (and assuming you haven't changed the name of yours by then.)

 

[Henry]

What's funny is when you both change your product names, and NOTHING gets released as "Dungeon Crawl."

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

They will. Dodge and the like will show up on the AC line, Quicken Spell-like Abilitiy would show on the spell-like ability line, etc. We were still sorting out the formatting in issue #124, and that sorting is likely to continue for a few more issues until we've got a handle on the new stat blocks.

Nice to hear this. And I hope this isn't asking for more information than is necessary, but here are some other suggestions. If all feats are going to be included somewhere, how about include noting Toughness (and Improved Toughness and the unholy toughness quality) on the hit point line.

I would appreciate if on the ability score line noting whether the ability scores were generated with the "elite array", "nonelite array", or "nonstandard". I mean, if the ability score info is already going to flow down to another line anyway, adding this extra info won't take more page space, but does add a litte more meaning.

Just some suggestions...

 

[James Jacobs]

Nice to hear this. And I hope this isn't asking for more information than is necessary, but here are some other suggestions. If all feats are going to be included somewhere, how about include noting Toughness (and Improved Toughness and the unholy toughness quality) on the hit point line.

I would appreciate if on the ability score line noting whether the ability scores were generated with the "elite array", "nonelite array", or "nonstandard". I mean, if the ability score info is already going to flow down to another line anyway, adding this extra info won't take more page space, but does add a litte more meaning.

Just some suggestions...

These won't be appearing in the stat block; we can't include everything. The stat blocks already take up a lot of room...

Feats like Toughness, Skill Focus, and Lightning Reflexes won't be called out in the text, since their effects are rolled into the stats. They don't get "activated" like Dodge, so the DM doesn't need to be reminded of them. They'll appear only in the creature's Feats line at the end of the stat block.

As for ability scores... I'd guess that 95% of the classed NPCs in the magazine use the elite array, 3% use the nonelite array, and 2% use a nonstandard array. Generally, the ones who use a nonstandard array are BBEGs. In any case, we won't be indicating this info in the stat blocks, since it doesn't really add anything to the stat block or impact game play at all, since the NPC's ability scores have already been generated.

 

[Altalazar]

It comes at the cost of column-inches, though. In other words, less stuff for a friendlier stat block. Personally I think they ARE beautiful and they DO make it easier to reference for combat statistics. However, I could read the old ones.

I think it is a cost well spent - never underestimate the proper use of whitespace and other methods to make something more readable - it doesn't make sense to squeeze in twice as much material if that material is difficult to use.