Duration of Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, etc.

[Beard in the Sky]

Has anyone else changed this around? I agree it used to be far too long, but now it seems far too SHORT. I was thinking of saying these spells will last for two encounters, as long as they take place in the same day. Thought? Would one encounter work better?

 

[Wolffenjugend]

At 1 minute/level it should already last the duration of one encounter - easily. How long are your encounters? 10/rnds per level (min 30 rounds for a 3rd-lvl caster) is quite sufficient for even a major battle.

Basically, the spell lasts long enough for what you need it for. It doesn't last long enough to do everything (like in 3.0).

IMO, it's fine as is. It got rid of the annoying, daily morning buff-up session where everyone's stats became bloated.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

It's nice to see someone else who thinks these spells are fine the way they revised them. It seems like that was one of the biggest gripes I heard in the changeover to 3.5 - "they nerfed <insert buff spell here>!" As a spellcaster, the 3.0 version annoyed me. Everyone wanted me to use up my spell slots to buff them up. I have better uses for my spells most of the time than to beef up another iron-headed fighter.

Either leave it the way it is, or use it the way it was, not much else makes much sense. Why would a spell last a certain number of encounters? How would the magic know? If you have two fights within minutes of each other the magic quits after a few minutes, but if they are hours apart the spell just sits and waits for the next fight? What if you don't fight in the encounter? Does it count against you? If you use your Bull's Strength to force a door does that count as an encounter or can you do that all day until you get into a fight?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think 1 minute/lvl is an improvement balancewise over 1 hour/lvl.

We changed it to 10 minutes/lvl because of our campaign style. We rarely have multiple combats back to back, so we are unlikely to benefit for more than a single combat from the buff. If that.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Most of these buff spells are 2nd or 3rd level and they will last for at least one fight at 1 minute/level. This makes sense to me for that level of spell.

 

[Crothian]

I've found them find at the current duration.

 

[swrushing]

That change was one of the reasons i chose to not get 3.5 and my
campaign(s) stayed and will remain 3.0.

One of the things i liked in 3.0 was the option to do with spells what items do. It lessened the import of items and made the spell choices tougher. As one guy above says, in 3.0 he had to choose between saying yes to his fighter buddy and prepping/casting spells he wanted more himself.

Now, that tough choice is gone. he has easier decisions.

In one of the previews the wotc guy said that inn3.5 if you want all day boosts the way to go is thru items and that was the intent.

Well, i dont like my games being more about the items, thank you very much. I much prefer a design where you can get with magic spells or character traits the special things you can get from items... at least the normal routine magic items.

3.0 serves well in that regard.

 

[Stalker0]

The thing I don't like about teh 1 minute/level duration is that you preety much have to cast it in battle to get the use out of it. And since your wasting more than just a spell slot, your also using a standard action... that +4 to a stat starts looking preety lousy.

When I could casting scorching ray or invis in a combat, getting the +4 to a stat doesn't seem worth it.

A lot of people went with 10 min/lvl, because you could still cast them at the start of a dungeon and make good use of them, it wasn't the all day buff routine but it was still good.

Finally, the 1 minute/lvl makes extending them mostly pointless. 10 min/lvl extended you still get a fair bang for your buck.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I like them just fine at 1 min/level. It's long enough to be useful in and out of combat without becoming a de facto permanent increase to a character's stat. A 16-STR character with a permanent +4 STR item is a character with a 20 STR, and I plan encounters/traps/challenges accordingly. OTOH, a 16 STR character with the potential for a 20 STR could gain a temporary advantage.

I'm very stingy with items that buff stats, and often ban items that boost non-physical stats completely. I've also been known to limit +skill items to a max bonus equal to the skill's relevant stat bonus - ie Lockpicks +5 would only add +2 to the Open Locks check for a character with a 14 Dex.

 

[mikebr99]

I would have liked them to keep the stat boost as a random number still... so you could have a extended, empowered, bull's STR... instead of just an extended Bull's STR.


YMMV

However, this is what house rules are for.


Mike