Duskblades, channeled spells, and criticals

[Corsair]

Ok pretty straight forward question.

Facts:

1) You can critical with a sword.
2) You can critical with a touch spell (like say, shocking grasp).
3) Our friend Mr. Duskblade is attacking a living creature which is vulnerable to criticals.

Situation:

Question 1) Mr. Duskblade is wielding a heavy mace, channelling a 3d6 shocking grasp, and rolls a 20 and criticals. Assuming no other bonuses to damage, how much damage does he do?

• A: 2d8 + 3d6
• B: 2d8 + 6d6

Question 2) Mr. Duskblade is wielding a longsword, channelling a 3d6 shocking grasp, and rolls a 19 and criticals. Assuming no other bonuses to damage, how much damage does he do?

• A: 2d8 + 3d6
• B: 2d8 + 6d6

Question 2) Mr. Duskblade is wielding a battle axe, channelling a 3d6 shocking grasp, and rolls a 20 and criticals. Assuming no other bonuses to damage, how much damage does he do?

• A: 3d8 + 3d6
• B: 3d8 + 6d6
• C: 3d8 + 9d6

Question 1 simply asks whether a critical with a weapon will increase the damage from the channeled spell.

Question 2 asks, assuming that the answer to question 1 is B, does the spell on the weapon get to take advantage of the weapons expanded critical range? If so, then the answer would be B. It is possible for Question 1 to be B, and Question 2 to be A however.

Question 3 asks if the spell can take advantage of the improved critical multiplier on the weapon.

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Part of me says that since the spell damage is extra on top of the weapon damage, it would not be multiplied, like flaming or sneak attack, etc, so the answers to all questions would be A. However I can also see an argument the other way also. Considering that you have to actually roll real attack rolls, not just touch attacks, I could possibly be persuaded that allowing the criticals wouldn't be horribly game breaking, but I would probably not choose option C for question 3. That would definately be either A or B in my game.

The question is coming up because I want to make a swashbuckler/duskblade who tumbles about with a rapier, relying on the channeled spells for the real oomph in his attacks. I'm sure this question will come up very quickly in game, and I'd like to see everyone's opinions.

 

[Corsair]

Addendum: The "Arcane Channeling" ability does not say you add the spell as extra damage, it says you can "deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack" This makes it sound more like it should be able to critical, as you are still making an attack with the spell.

So if this is true, it makes questions 2 and 3 more important. Can the spell take advantage of expanded threat range or increased critical modifiers?

 

[hong]

I would call it as 1b, 2a, 3b. The spell and the weapon are separate, they're just delivered via the same attack roll.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Excellent Question. My only answer, is that I don't know according to the rules.

I would probably not allow the spell to critical on a 19 or below, as normally it does not. But on a natural 20, I am not sure what I would do. I'll be interested to see how this works out.

 

[frankthedm]

You delivered the spell through the melee attack. You never attacked with the spell itself. You are even trying to claim the weapons' crit range. Thats not the spell. Even ith the vaugest working in the world, you can't multiply the spell damage if it is delivered with the weapon's attack.

Multiplying Damage: Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results. Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.

 

[Darklone]

I would call it as 1b, 2a, 3b. The spell and the weapon are separate, they're just delivered via the same attack roll.

It's a little bit complicated, but I'd go with hong here. Treat the spell as 20/*2 critical threat range weapon.

Or you might argue along the Dual Strike/Manyshot line: One roll for several attacks/hits, but only one hit gets the sneak attack or critical hit benefit.

Now that I think about it, that should be the solution... or imagine a duskblade with sneak attack. By our first arguing, we should apply the sneak attack damage to the weapon and to the spell.

 

[DM_Jeff]

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.[/I]

I came here this morning looking for an answer to this very question myself, and the above text quote makes it pretty darn clear that, well, extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied...so I don't think spell effects delivered by a duskblade will threaten a crit when the weapon does, even on a natural 20.

-DM Jeff

 

[Darklone]

I came here this morning looking for an answer to this very question myself, and the above text quote makes it pretty darn clear that, well, extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied...so I don't think spell effects delivered by a duskblade will threaten a crit when the weapon does, even on a natural 20.

-DM Jeff

That would not help us here if you channel spells with a set amount of damage like Harm.

 

[wildstarsreach]

You are channeling spells through you weapon as a melee attack. That doesn't mean that if you confirm a critical, that the spell damage is multiplied. I play a duskblade and don't see it as reasonable to multiply the spell damage. My DM see this the same way otherwise it would possibly make that this class has too much.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Thinking more and more about this, Arcane channeling should not work with the spells other than those that the duskblade learns with his/her class. I think that this really works at perverting the balance of the class. To be able to channel other classes spells would be bad and then to be able to multiply the damage if you critical would be even worse.