dwarf as a class

[TwinBahamut]

The idea of the race/class divide certainly is simple and intuitive enough, but I've always found it a bit limiting. If you hold the ideas of race and class too far apart, you are forced to balance every race against the basic abilities of a human. This works well enough for "rubber forehead" races like Dwarves and Elves, which are close enough to being human in the first place, but it causes lots of problems for other race concepts.

For example, some of my favorite fantasy races are the Laguz and Manakete from the Fire Emblem series of videogames and many of the similar "Clans" from the Breath of Fire series of videogames. Put simply, they are natural shapeshifters, in the vein of natural lycanthropes, who have the power to change between a humanlike form and a very powerful animal form. This kind of race is simply too powerful for a 3E-style race/class system. That's why they had to create Shifters to serve as a poor substitute. However, with the concept of "race as a class", you would only need to balance a natural lycanthrope race against the Fighter or Wizard, not the base human, which is much easier and allows for the concept to be fully explored.

If you use the suggestion Minigiant made, of combining the "race as class" concept with a traditional race/class system and multiclassing, then you get a very flexible system that can handle a much wider range of character concepts more easily than before. In many ways, it would be both a reference back to older D&D systems and an evolution of the Racial Paragon Path system from 4E. People would be free to pick a race at the beginning and ignore the racial class, but they could also choose to level up in the racial class and acquire special abilities unique to that race's concept. It would open up a lot of fun possibilities.

 

[WheresMyD20]

If they're really going for modularity, why not move non-human races out of the core rules? You could have two sections of optional rules: one for non-human race as class and one for separate race and class. Each game group could pick either one of the options - or both, or neither.

 

[trancejeremy]

The idea of the race/class divide certainly is simple and intuitive enough, but I've always found it a bit limiting. If you hold the ideas of race and class too far apart, you are forced to balance every race against the basic abilities of a human. This works well enough for "rubber forehead" races like Dwarves and Elves, which are close enough to being human in the first place, but it causes lots of problems for other race concepts.

For example, some of my favorite fantasy races are the Laguz and Manakete from the Fire Emblem series of videogames and many of the similar "Clans" from the Breath of Fire series of videogames. Put simply, they are natural shapeshifters, in the vein of natural lycanthropes, who have the power to change between a humanlike form and a very powerful animal form. This kind of race is simply too powerful for a 3E-style race/class system. That's why they had to create Shifters to serve as a poor substitute. However, with the concept of "race as a class", you would only need to balance a natural lycanthrope race against the Fighter or Wizard, not the base human, which is much easier and allows for the concept to be fully explored.

Indeed, that was one of the more fascinating things about BECMI D&D - there were several supplements just for playing monster races (Creature Crucible series) and a lot of the other sourcebooks had them as well

 

[Minigiant]

If they're really going for modularity, why not move non-human races out of the core rules? You could have two sections of optional rules: one for non-human race as class and one for separate race and class. Each game group could pick either one of the options - or both, or neither.

I believe they are doing something like this.

Here is my guess on how the Race chapter and Class chapter will look in the book

Character Races

• Introduction to Races
  • Half Breeds
• Dragonborn
• Dwarf
• Elf
• Halfling
• Human
• Kobold

Character Classes

• Introduction of Classes
• Basic Classes
  • Dragonborn Priest
  • Dwarf Soldier
  • Elf Adept
  • Halfling Thief
  • Human Bandit
  • Human Cleric
  • Human Mage
  • Human Warrior
  • Kobold Trickster
• Advanced Classes
  • Cleric
    • Orisons
    • Prayers
  • Fighter
    • Stances
    • Strikes
  • Rogue
    • Exploits
    • Tricks
  • Wizard
    • Cantrips
    • Spells
• Multiclassing

Variant Character Rules

• Skills
• Feats
• Racial Themes
• Class Themes
• Prestige Classes

 

[WheresMyD20]

I think it might work something like this:

Classes (all assumed to be human in core)
Cleric
Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Class X
Class Y
Class Z
.
.
.

Non-Human Races (optional rule)
If your DM allows, you may pick a non-human race in addition to your class.
Dwarf
Elf
Halfling
Race A
Race B
Race C
.
.
.

Race-Classes (optional rule)
If your DM allows, you may select one of these Race-Classes instead of one of the classes in the core rules. These cannot be combined with the optional Non-Human Race rules (they're already assumed in the class).
Dwarven Warrior (different version of fighter)
Elven Adventurer (similar to fighter/wizard)
Halfling Wanderer (similar to fighter/rogue)
Gnomish Trickster (similar to rogue/wizard)
Race-Class X
Race-Class Y
Race-Class Z
.
.
.

 

[Tallifer]

I want an optional module wherein story is completely decoupled from mechanics. And I want that option fully supported by the Character Builder.

No racial classes or restrictions on level.
No racial ability bonuses or skills.
No racial weapon proficiencies.
No racial clerical domains.
No racial feats.
No setting restrictions for feats, backgrounds, themes, dragon marks, items, classes, races, monsters, professions, skills or materials.

Of course I can handwave all that stuff to suit my own campaign world, but the Character Builder and the printed material make that harder to do.

I like versatility of story. Dwarven fighters and elfin archers are iconic but stale now. Let me see a system wherein Orcs can become sages of the arcane and Elves can be barbarians form some strange lost tribe.

 

[erleni]

If you take the 4th ed Vampire you have an example of a "race as a class" (and for many gamers out there vampire should have been a race).
I guess the dwarf class in D&DN could be similar with options to multiclass and swap powers/abilities/whatever.

 

[Izumi]

To a lot of people tradition has meaning. The modern arch-types for some mythic creatures were created on the back of actual beliefs humans had in the distant past. Thus, they resonate better than the things made up willy-nilly for our game tables.

For example:
Dwarves are smiths, miners, warriors, poets, drinkers, and lovers of hairy females nobody knows what look like.

Elves are mysterious creatures that dwell in the forested glens, glades, vales, dells, groves, dales, and the river meadows. Perhaps even the fantastical dream-like shifting faylands between our thoughts. They are singers, fencers, magicians, archers, and artisans. They are at once beautiful, jovial, sinister, serious, and dangerous.

The Hobbit is an offshoot of humans, but Shorter in stature, and bad at burgling things. They cause no end of trouble and complaints during adventures away from home. Some call them Halflings, but when it comes to willpower these guys can really hold their own against evil sanity-destroying elder gods with tentacles.

Yep, don't mess with tradition. Instead present what everybody knows by heart, and expand it into your own unique vision. That's D&D.

What's more perfect than this?

Elf is Fighter/Mage
Dwarf is Fighter
Hobbit is..well, he's there.

 

[Nivenus]

I won't call this a deal breaker, but it would be a significant warning sign to me. I've never thought the "races as classes" idea was a good one and to be perfectly honest, it strikes me as having significantly unfortunate implications.

 

[Tony Vargas]

One way 5e might have a shot at accomplishing it's stated goal is to have a single 'level progression' (like 4e had, initially, but more so) with Class, Race, Theme and so forth just adding options.

A 'Dwarf' could be more a pre-build than a class, presented along side (human) fighting men and magic-users who were also more pre-builds than classes - in the core/basic game. As you got more suplements, you'd find out that the 'Dwarf' is actually a Dwarf Fighter with the Dungeon Stomper Theme, Hammermiester Style, Schieldbitter Clan and Tunnel Rat Background that's made specific choices at each level, and that you could easily take your 'Dwarf' and start making different choices, customizing it to a crazy degree...