Dwarven kingdoms

[Morrus]

The main "under the mountain" dwarven kingdoms I'm familiar with are all decrepit - Moria, the Hobbit one, Thorbardin from Dragonlance.

What other examples of that meme are there (I'm not familiar with Forgotten Realms - I expect is has an undermountain dwarf place?)

Are any in their prime? Bustling with industry and trade and stuff? Those things always seem to talk of long-lost prosperity!

 

[DrunkonDuty]

It is something of a trope isn't it.

Dwarves are always saying that the rest works of their fathers were truly wondrous and that today's Dwarf cities aren't a patch on what they used to be like. It makes me wonder if maybe it's just the pessimistic, grumpy old bugger Dwarven point of view - "Things were better then. It's all rubbish nowadays."

Greyhawk has a few living, vibrant Dwarven Kingdoms. One of the Uleks (Principallity IIRC) is the most memorable. (Unless you count my own Dwarf realm that I created for a campaign a few years back. ;-) )

 

[Umbran]

It is something of a trope isn't it.

Well, thank Tolkien for that.

I have an image in my head from a novel that had a thriving dwarven kingdom under the mountains. I just can't remember what it was in. I'll look through my library...

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Well, thank Tolkien for that.

I do, I do.

Oddly all his Elven realms suffered from a similar problem (yes it was a theme of the story) BUT in RPGs there are many more vibrant, living Elf communities. Or at least that's what it feels like to me.

So somehow the Elves dodged the trope while the Dwarves copped it full in the face. Sneaky, dodgy, bloody Elves.

 

[GMMichael]

What other examples of that meme are there (I'm not familiar with Forgotten Realms - I expect is has an undermountain dwarf place?)

Are any in their prime? Bustling with industry and trade and stuff?

Dwemer, Skyrim, the Elder Scrolls. The dwarven ruins are definitely NOT in their prime, but there's plenty of industry and bustling going on there.

They have spider-robots that crawl around, chiseling.

And dwarven spheres - basically T800s on balls.

And then there's the dwarven centurions, a.k.a. iron golems. Don't mess.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

Earthdawn's Throal. Due to the it's (recent) history, the world is just recovering from disaster. The Throalian dwarves have taken over a leadership role, trying to coordinate the rebuilding of their area of the world.

They don't exactly evoke images of gigantic caves full of smithies, but their kingdom is under the mountains, at least.

 

[Khaalis]

Interesting question. Why most people force dwarves into the role of a declining species is beyond me. Yes I get Tolkien, but that was then, this is now. Move on.

Some non-declining Dwarves I can think of off the top of my head...
* Warhammer FRP
* Pathfinder (only slightly in decline due to war)
* Forgotten Realms has many thriving dwarven cultures
* Shadowrun dwarves are not typical Tolkien dwarves, but they also don't have a huge population like Orcs and Trolls.
* While not a P&P RPG, World of Warcraft Dwarves also break the Tolkien mold.

On a side note, Dwarves in my homebrew are also a thriving species, and not in decline, though they are closer to Norse dwarves than Tolkien dwarves.

I guess it really comes down to the question of what you want Dwarves to be. I get the personal impression that Most RPGs only bother including them as a half-hearted afterthought as they feel they are one of the Tolkien sacred cows. I much prefer to see them get a more unique niche.

 

[gamerprinter]

Undermountain is the creation of the mad wizard Hallister, its not a dwarf construction.

Not exactly a full dwarven mine/community, but just a mine, but here's a map I did with a currently used map - not decrepit... This is not published, but potentially could be, if I chose to finish the communal areas in a different layer map.

 

[scourger]

Karak Azgal in WFRP is a thriving dwarf city built atop dwarven ruins - ironically partly thriving on the licensed looting of the ruins below. I liked it so much that I kept the module even once I traded off the game.

Hammerfast is a D&D 4e dwarven city built in an ancient dwarven necropolis once conquered & looted by orcs. An interesting bit allowing both ghosts & orcs. I bought this module even though I never got that version of the game.

I would run an all-dwarf in either setting.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Undermountain is the creation of the mad wizard Hallister, its not a dwarf construction.(snip)

Undermountain was created by the Melairkyn dwarves. Halaster is/was a later squatter.
[MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]: FR has some functioning dwarven communities that are not in decline: the Great Rift (pre-4E)/East Rift (4E) and Mithral Hall are two that spring to mind.