Dwarven Toughness?

[takasi]

One of my players sent an email asking if he can take "Dwarven Toughness" as a feat. He said it's in Sword and Fist. Do you know if there's an update to this feat? What exactly does it do? He's saying it gives him +6 hp and the pre-reqs are dwarf and fort +5. Can anyone confirm? Do you recommend allowing this? What other feats can he take that might bump his HP? I suggested toughness and improved toughness, but he has his heart set on more HP.

 

[rowport]

One of my players sent an email asking if he can take "Dwarven Toughness" as a feat. He said it's in Sword and Fist. Do you know if there's an update to this feat? .

You were right in your suggestions. Dwarven Toughness is a 3.0 feat that was updated with Improved Toughness in 3.5. Here is the article showing the feat updates on WOTC's site:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x

 

[griff_goodbeard]

I don't belive there is a 3.5 update for this feat, but I probably wouldn't have a problem allowing it. I don't think it game-breaking, by any strech of the imagination. Feats are pretty valuable after all.

 

[werk]

Improved Toughness
[General, Fighter]
(CWar p101)
(MM3 p207)

Req: Base Fortitude Save +2

Ben: Gain 1hp per hit-die. This applies to future hit-dice too. If a hit-die is permanently lost, you lose the bonus hp.


Oddly enough, you don't need toughness to pick up improved toughness.

 

[Steve Jung]

If you allow the Player's Guide to Faerûn, there is the Dauntless regional feat. It gives +5 hp. Because it is a FR regional feat, there are race/region prerequisites, a character can only take it at first level, and he can only have one regional feat ever.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I don't think you have to be a dwarf to take dwarf's toughness. IIRC it is part of series that has "giant's toughness" and "dragon's toughness" in it.

And if the prereq is fort +5, wouldn't you have to be a 6th level fighter to get it? In which case the benefit is exactly the same as improved toughness. Less actually, since improved toughness gives you another hit point every level.

Unless.... Is he multiclassed to get the +5 fortitude save at 3rd level? Ranger1/Fighter2 or something? Even so, improved toughness is better in just a few levels.

 

[Li Shenron]

One of my players sent an email asking if he can take "Dwarven Toughness" as a feat. He said it's in Sword and Fist. Do you know if there's an update to this feat? What exactly does it do? He's saying it gives him +6 hp and the pre-reqs are dwarf and fort +5. Can anyone confirm? Do you recommend allowing this? What other feats can he take that might bump his HP? I suggested toughness and improved toughness, but he has his heart set on more HP.

It's a 3.0 feat in Masters of the Wild.

It does not require to be a dwarf, "dwarf" is just the name of the feat but nothing else.
The required +5 Fort is base save, you should not count Con modifier for instance.

If you are playing 3.5 or allow 3.5 feats anyway, Improved Toughness is nearly always better; and even if he's not 6th level yet, it will be straight better from that time forward.

 

[Feldspar]

It's a 3.0 feat in Masters of the Wild.

It does not require to be a dwarf, "dwarf" is just the name of the feat but nothing else.
The required +5 Fort is base save, you should not count Con modifier for instance.

If you are playing 3.5 or allow 3.5 feats anyway, Improved Toughness is nearly always better; and even if he's not 6th level yet, it will be straight better from that time forward.

What if you already have Improved Toughness? If you're focused on max HP's then I can see someone wanting to follow up IT with the old MotW Toughness feats.

 

[Li Shenron]

What if you already have Improved Toughness? If you're focused on max HP's then I can see someone wanting to follow up IT with the old MotW Toughness feats.

They stack together, like the first PHB Toughness stacks with itself (only you don't take the other 'toughnesses' more than once each AFAIK).

I really see no problem in a PC boosting his Hp as much as possible. It's not usually worth after some point, since you're giving up precious feats for many uses, but it's definitely allowed.

Actually I may even consider going as far as the following: merging Toughness, Dwarf's Tn, Giant's Tn and Dragon's Tn into a single feat, so that as soon as the PC reaches the required base Fort, the feat "turns into the next" and the PC get some Hp more.

 

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by Li Shenron
Actually I may even consider going as far as the following: merging Toughness, Dwarf's Tn, Giant's Tn and Dragon's Tn into a single feat, so that as soon as the PC reaches the required base Fort, the feat "turns into the next" and the PC get some Hp more.

This is what the group I was in did. Once you met the prereqs for the next feat, the one you had before upgraded itself into that. Of course when Imp. Toughness came out, we ignored this completely and took Imp. Toughness instead. No on in our group takes anything but Imp. Toughness because the others aren't worth it in comparison and we all believe this is the way it should have been done in the first place.