Dwarves are not heroes...

[Dannyalcatraz]

Personally, as a creator of many different kinds of IP...I can't get behind all that.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

As Obi-Wan once said, "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

And that, of course, is exactly what makes different cultures different... Clinging to truths that are based solely on a particular point of view.

Indeedily!

Yes, but one is a laborer while the other is a craftsman. The miner retrieves the materials, but are his materials somehow transformed from the action of retrieving them? Are they indistinguishable from other raw materials of the same kind mined by another miner? No. The miner has not transformed the material in any meaningful way, other than having removed it from the earth and possibly cleaned it off.

The problem with that tack is it doesn't recognize what the miner's doing is a skill and craft in its own. It's not like any person can just go out to the backyard and come up with metal ore suitable for forging into a weapon of power*. You have to know where to look, how deep to dig, and what to do with the ore (are you going to just send cartloads of ore? Or much lighter bars?). You have to know how to separate the valuable ore from the stone or dirt, which is often easier said than done. This is not a simple thing, no more than blacksmithing or jewelcrafting.

* - Well, they can if the backyard has an adamantite meteorite in it. But that's unlikely.

Of course, dwarves do both. Depending on the setting, it may be expected that a given dwarf can gather the materials and make things with them to demonstrate that they're a well-rounded individual. Tolkien didn't seem to write much about the sociology of LotR-era dwarves, so we really can't say what their culture was like.


The other problem is that, again, how far does that goblin thinking go? Do goblins return bottles of urine to the bar where they quaffed the ale? Do they return knicknacks and used clothes back to their makers, or just important things?

And, hell, what were the goblins smoking when they leased an artifact to the wizards? I mean, seriously? An item of tremendous power and they expect the wizards, who have a COMLETELY DIFFERENT VIEW OF PROPERTY, to give it back? Especially since without the wizards' order, it wouldn't exist? Oy.

Brad

 

[prosfilaes]

And, hell, what were the goblins smoking when they leased an artifact to the wizards? I mean, seriously?

(A) The landlord's at the door, and is only interested in cash.

(B) The maker didn't care and it was the heirs that made a fuss.

(C) Maybe the goblins had just met the wizards or were otherwise clueless about the social norms of the wizards.

(D) (A), with the caveat that goblins figured they could steal it back or reacquire it some other way.

It doesn't strike me as surprising or unrealistic as a social rule. It is self-serving, but I bet there are answers to every one of your questions, and the answers seem self-evident to every goblin not trained in philosophy. (The philosophical goblins know the lines are arbitrary, but provide elaborate justifications for why they're the right ones.)

 

[Haltherrion]

Going way off topic. I've been reading the Hobbit to my son and was amused to re-read the part where the two wood-elves get drunk on the King's new wine, allowing Bilbo to do his dwarf-in-a-barrel bit, thus undercutting the amusing but annoying LOTR movie seen where Legolas drinks Gimli under the table...

 

[Pbartender]

I bet there are answers to every one of your questions, and the answers seem self-evident to every goblin not trained in philosophy. (The philosophical goblins know the lines are arbitrary, but provide elaborate justifications for why they're the right ones.)

Exactly.

And especially for the purposes of a roleplaying game, it isn't necessarily important why dwarves (or goblins) think that way, only that they do.

Consider that one of the basic tropes of dwarven society is that all wear beards, and the length of the beard is a matter of pride. Nobody questions it, it's just a fact of dwarven culture.

 

[TanisFrey]

Going way off topic. I've been reading the Hobbit to my son and was amused to re-read the part where the two wood-elves get drunk on the King's new wine, allowing Bilbo to do his dwarf-in-a-barrel bit, thus undercutting the amusing but annoying LOTR movie seen where Legolas drinks Gimli under the table...

I like to play the Hobbit game for my PSII. The level where you free the dwarfs from the elves has you find a special rare herb combination and add it to the wine the two wood-elves drink. Only after you dose the drink does a cut scene play and you can move on to getting the dwarfs into the barrels.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

Dragon Age is FANTASTIC for the dwarf culture and lore.

Some people say the Dwarf playthrough was the BEST part. Guess who agrees?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep_OTLZOQsU]YouTube - Hitler rants about Dragon Age 2[/ame]

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Much as I love me my Tolkien dwarves, and Norse dwarfs, and sterotypically Scottish clansmen D&D dwarves, one of the more original ideas that I like that I regret not exploring more in games terms were the communist dwarves of the Chainmail setting.

Screw craftsmanship. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need!

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Humans would lick Asmodeus' arse crack if they thought they'd find a shilling up it!
us dwarves...we'd throw one o' them poncy elves up there tae get fer us!

Gnomes are the result o' one o' us mistaking an elf for a sheep, if ye ask me.

When yer about 4 foot tall and wield an axe, most folk widnea call ye "lawful Good" 'cause we cut more "Man-sacks" than a city full o' short changed tarts!

Humans: a dwarf's favourite prey, all nice an' legal like, 'cause they're as dumb as goblins, greedy as a duergar, always bloody forget we have 'em by the short n' curlies cause they dinna ken a contract from a cataract, and so every Human funeral, is a dwarf's birthday!

Dwarves! Wha's like us? Damn few, an' they're all gods!

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Much as I love me my Tolkien dwarves, and Norse dwarfs, and sterotypically Scottish clansmen D&D dwarves, one of the more original ideas that I like that I regret not exploring more in games terms were the communist dwarves of the Chainmail setting.

Screw craftsmanship. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need!

And for an essentially altruistic group-focused LG community, it's really not a big stretch. It certainly downplays the greedy aspect, or at least redirects it to the community as opposed to the individual.

It was certainly different, and I kinda liked the idea, though it's not like I put any money into Chainmail.

Brad