E-Tools, A Programmers Prospective

[EnglishScribe]

An introduction, I am a software developer for a company in the UK that produces database driven products for the airline industry.

Well, I finally managed to play with e-tools for a few weeks, despite the fact that it STILL has not been officially released in the UK.

I have a few opinions:

I think that the user interface is appalling and archaic. We would shudder to consider anything so user hostile for an in-house tool, let alone a final release. The interface is neither windows-compliant nor intuitive.

The database is incomplete, with, in my opinion, far too much reliance on hand-coded kludges.

The ethos of 3rd edition D&D, to provide the players with the tools they need to implement their own rule set, has been completely forgotten. This ethos is strong in products like Manual of the Planes, Demigods & Deities, etc, but has been ignored for electronic releases.

The e-tools developers might have considered starting with the tools to create skills, feats, classes, races, etc, then building the release database using their own tools. Unfortunately it appears that they skipped this step of database development and instead hand-assembled the database.

The distribution is incomplete. If Internet Explorer 5.5+ is needed to print, IE5.5+ should be included in the distribution. Most "professional" tool developers do, and Microsoft are approachable on the subject, Microsoft WANT you to use IE, IE is your friend. The distribution also lacks the finishing touches we would associate with a final product, such as an on-CD installation readme file, an autorun CD, etc.

I suspect that Fluid has very little experience dealing with database applications or with windows applications, and the fact that all of Fluids other products are games support this fact. Games development and database tool development have very few similarities. This has no bearing on Fluids competency, but on WotC's perhaps inadviced choice of developer.

 

[Zef]

I seem to remember reading that there was going to be some sort of sdk to adapt the program to your own needs, is this just some creative remembering or was this something that was mentioned?

 

[wighair]

I've only played with it for about an hour in total but my reaction was disapointment....

The primary icons have no labels and no tooltips. How basic is this?

The dice roll methods use things like "Super tough characters". When searching the help file for the mechanical descriptions of these I come across "See the DMG page XXX". Deep joy. why couldn't something as basic as this be put on the selector: 4d6 pick best 3. etc.

Speed. This is a heavily laden gnome if ever i saw one. I've heard people complain about PC Gen, but this is MUCH slower on my system then PC Gen ever is. Maybe my system is getting a bit creaky these days (PIII 500), but it should be able to run a simple DB app without haulting for 2-3 seconds between some clicks.

The colours seem abit grim to my eye. Couldn't they have left us with windows defaults?

These are MINOR gripes, and I am yet to get "into" the interface properly, but I fear it does not bode at all well.

Mel.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

...

It struck me as telling what else fluid has developed;

Pokemon
Harry Potter
Arthur

In progress;

Powerpuff Girls
Catacombs

Now, there's a common theme here...

All Games
With the possible exception of Catacombs, all for kids.
With the exception of Catacombs, all on the back of licences.
(We all know about licenced games, right?)

Then there's E-Tools; Database backed, not a game, going to be used as a Tool by (well, lets settle for saying an older target audience than Powerpuff Girls, OK?)

Its not a pedigree that would have made me commission a DB application from them...

 

[Luke]

The database is incomplete, with, in my opinion, far too much reliance on hand-coded kludges.

If you've a history in IT development, I can tell you that there is a history behind the E-Tools development that signalled many of the hallmarks of failure (beyond the control of the developers).

I think your assessment of "hand-coded kludges" has merit, from some perspectives, and strikes at the very architecture behind E-Tools. I also think it was a battle that the developers were never really going to win.
If you're interested, I've talked about some architectural issues here

 

[Sm!rk]

Re: ...

With the exception of Catacombs, all on the back of licences.
(We all know about licenced games, right?)

No we don't, whats to know about licensed games?

Also I'd like to point out that licensed and on contract are two different birds.

 

[2WS-Steve]

MB is pointing to the notoriously bad track record for licensed computer and console games. A lot of them simply stank and seemed to expect their license to carry the product as opposed to good game play, solid programming, and so on.

WotC seems to have a cozy relationship with Blizzard; it's too bad they couldn't talk Blizzard into doing the product. That company knows how to put out a polished product.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

...

Thanks 2WS-Steve; per-cisely

 

[Simplicity]

Frankly, I'm pretty disappointed with E-tools as well.
I bought it, even though the reviews on it were less
than stellar. Chalk it up to my willingness to support
both D&D and my software profession.

I've seen a lot of people complain and say, "I could do better."
Well, I for a fact know that I couldn't do better. I simply
don't have the programming resources or time at my disposal.
But I can design a heck of a lot better program in a fairly short
amount of time...

Things that annoyed me with E-tools:
1) Only adult dragons. What the heck? It IS called Dungeons and DRAGONS. You already removed the dungeon functionality, can't you get the damn dragons right?

2) The stat blocks are not standard stat blocks. The whole point
of having pasteable stat blocks is so that you DON'T have to go in and modify them. Now I admit, stat block standardization has a long way to go... But, at least comply with some standard (DMG, Dungeon, etc). It's like they decided weapons were too hard to do, so they just took the easy way out... Or something. I don't know why they did it the way they did.

3) No tooltips. Absolutely right. It's easy to do, and the icons are not intuitive. But whatever... This was a mild annoyance.

4) Templates. If they're done, they're not done well... I wouldn't know since I couldn't find them.

5) I was hoping for a real GUI, and not a boring windows GUI.
But that didn't happen either.

-------

A better way of doing it would have been:
1) Write a library that reads/writes XML files for: Monsters, Traps, Races, Spells, Abilities, Saves, Skills, and Items.

2) Using (1) write editor programs to add/edit entries in these
files. Just a simple database entry program for each file.

3) Write a class for each of the type of item in (1). Each class should have a format option that provides a HTML formatted string that puts the item into the format specified by Dungeon for submissions.

From here there are two ways to go:
4a) Write a MDI application with a large editable text box (so it looks like Word). A right click brings up a menu with the following options (Insert NPC, Insert Monster, Insert Trap, Insert Treasure).
Each of those options leads to a dialog where you specify the details of the thing you want. On OK, the stat block is printed into your document. Thus, you have a "Module Maker" where you write the text of your module, and when you need something rule-based, it's a right click and a dialog away.

4b) (The better option) Make it a Microsoft Word add-in.

And if you really want to do it right:
5) Add a mapping tool.

I know the argument is: You haven't done it, so you don't know how hard it is... Well, I WAS able to do 1, 3, and 4a (for Monsters A-G and traps) in about two weeks in my spare time. I was also able to write 5 (map rooms, walls, doors, basic map formatting to keep doors on walls, and do erasing of objects, text labels) in about two weeks.

What I wrote in 4 weeks was unsellable crap. I admit that. But what I did see was that it's not impossible to come up with a better product. To me a better product is something that's INTEGRATED with what I'm going to use it for.

I don't want something that will generate a cut-and-paste stat block for me. I want something that integrates with my text editor and puts the stat blocks in there for me. I want something that combines my map drawing with my module writing.

If I believed at all in Open Source software, I'd say let's do it...
But I don't. I think PCGen is an example of the loss of focus that
Open Source software inevitably runs into... The only way this is going to be done correctly is if some company decides that they can make money in this arena.

So, I'll just whine and moan until somebody does.

 

[Fast Learner]

4a) Write a MDI application with a large editable text box (so it looks like Word). A right click brings up a menu with the following options (Insert NPC, Insert Monster, Insert Trap, Insert Treasure).
Each of those options leads to a dialog where you specify the details of the thing you want. On OK, the stat block is printed into your document. Thus, you have a "Module Maker" where you write the text of your module, and when you need something rule-based, it's a right click and a dialog away.

4b) (The better option) Make it a Microsoft Word add-in.

To each his/her own, clearly. I would really, really, really dislike this kind of interface. I certainly agree that standard-formatted stat blocks with easy copy and paste are essential, and running the app alongside the word processor/page layout app of my choice would be great, but a text-box-based interface would not work for me at all, much less a Word add-in.