E-Tools now?

[EricNoah]

RPG Toolkit? Man, another version? Is this going to be in addition to E-tools or replacing it?

For the original, I had Microsoft Access 2000 so hacked into the database for all sorts of things. Of course that lead to other problems, but at least characters who had customized weapons could actually use them.

What's e-tools running now? What the heck are these data sets I keep hearing about? Are they like add ons? How much are they? If it's not too bad, I may take another whack at it. NPCs are such a pain to write up... especially in terms of meeting PrC requirements that require you to multi-class.

Toolkit is another version, yes. Can't blame CMP for not wanting to be saddled with the eTools they inherited. But yeah, it sucks in a way too.

Data sets are ... sets of data. Not too helpful, eh? It's like when you buy the Eberron book, then you might want to buy the Eberron data set (runs about $7, and adds the classes, races, feats, spells, skills, monsters, etc.) from that book to your copy of eTools.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, I didn't really want to ask any technical questions and wanted more of a 'general' discussion. Stuff that gets throw in the RPG often is for a certain type of board poster.

Eric, thanks for the feedback. I think I'll wait and see what the new version offers. The utility of the data sets does sound impressive but it's a bit of a screw job any way you look at it. $35 for the book (+ tax), +$7 for the dataset... Not bad if you only buy the dataset. It's too bad that the datasets can't be included with the book as a CD or a download. I think Bastion did something like that with a limited edition Arms and Armor at Gen Con this year right?

On the other hand, the time it would take me to type that info in is far far more than $7...

 

[DaveMage]

I hate the idea of spending money for a core program, then having to buy a separate data set for *every book* that comes out - especially when I've already paid for a book!

It means that, if you are a completist, then suddenly the $40 software program will cost $200+.

Something is wrong there...

 

[EricNoah]

On the other hand, the time it would take me to type that info in is far far more than $7...

Absolutely. Even if I had access to the coding/database etc. it would take me at least a couple of hours and probably a lot longer to enter a book like Monster Manual II or Eberron, and my free time is valuable to me. I think the pricing on the data sets is more than fair. The notion that you should automatically get the data set just because you bought the book baffles me (wishing it is one thing, expecting it is another).

 

[Henry]

I use PCGEN, and if they had a PCGen dataset ready for it yet, I would snap it up in a heartbeat. As it is, I've been adding in material as needed until I see a full set.

 

[Nine Hands]

Just remember the cost of the data set is both for CMP (Code Monkey Publishing) to license the information AND for someone to code the information into the program. You would be VERY surprised at how complex some of these things are.

I should know since I have done some coding for PCGen (not for CMP) and it is about as complex as anything to do with computers. Some of the newer books use things that are not even available in the current code so that has to be added before the data can be entered. Plus E-tools was pretty messed up when CMP took it over.

All in all I love E-tools and have bought pretty much every dataset. IMO, they have saved me much more money than the cost of the datasets in just time alone.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Absolutely. Even if I had access to the coding/database etc. it would take me at least a couple of hours and probably a lot longer to enter a book like Monster Manual II or Eberron, and my free time is valuable to me. I think the pricing on the data sets is more than fair. The notion that you should automatically get the data set just because you bought the book baffles me (wishing it is one thing, expecting it is another).

I would think it would be an excellent way for someone to differentiate their product. I know there are several books I didn't buy or seriously delayed my purchase of because they lacked ETools/PCGen support.

It's kind of a bad situation for the consumer, though. On the one hand, I'm essentially prevented from keying in the datasets myself and then distributing them for free, which forces each individual to recreate a butt-load of work. On the other hand, there seems to be precious little interest on the part of third-party publishers to make their stuff available for PCGen or Etools, free or otherwise.

Reading the several threads going on now about the state of the hobby, and one thing that seems like it would help a lot of people is a comprehensive chargen. That requires a wider variety of data than is currently available for most people, unless you are basically SRD-only.

I would hope that those publishers charging for data sets (or not allowing them) instead of allowing the volunteer community to step up are doing so for fear of making their product redundant, and not out of some attempt to squeeze more money from the customer.

(This thread did remind me that I'd been meaning to ask Wulf about data sets for Grim Tales.)

 

[Klaus]

I recently updated my e-Tools to 3.5 and bought the Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Unearthed Arcana and Eberron data sets. Haven't installed the Eberron one yet, but the others work at 90% efficiency (the other 10% being little data bugs, like the Fighting Style monk (from UA) not getting the unarmed damage of a regular monk, or the Prestige Paladin (from UA) not getting his Cha added to saves when he gets Divine Grace).

 

[tennyson]

I was looking at this program as well. What is the latest version of E-Tools? A member of my gaming group has v1.0, but according to what everyone is saying, there have been vast improvements on this. Thanks!

 

[EricNoah]

I agree that I would (in some ways) love to go back to the community-driven data sets. Some of them were of very high quality in terms of completeness and accuracy. And I suspect that, unfortunately, there's always going to be a lot of this done under the table (data set swapping, etc.).