E-Tools now?
- Thread starter JoeGKushner
- Start date
Like someone else said, what happened to Pen and Paper. In effort to find a program to fit my needs I purchased Etools, Campaign Suite, RPM and DMGenie, in the end I have returned to pen and paper for PC's. Between bugs or the program just simply cannot handle what I wish to do, it works best.
As a DM, Jamie's npc gen has filled my need until recently when I started coding my own. I am running a 2 mid level and 1 high level campaign and suddenly found myself needing some realistic NPC's.
Almost every product out today has the feel it was designed by people who do not even play RPG (Granted I know this is not the case). The programs do not take into account for house rules very well or the need to alter and edit the wierdest details or if they do, better have 2 Ph.D's to figure it out.. hehe, I say 2 cause I have 1 and it is still a pain.
I know business dictates you sell to the masses and thats why there are far fewer DM Tools then PC tools it seems. After all, each group usually has what? A few players and 1 DM. Yet, who needs to save time where they can? I know for myself, I spend the most amount of my time doing NPC stat blocks...I spend more time doing game mechanics then the actual story it seems.. *chuckles*
Note: Don't get me wrong, I love software but when the software is my problem and not the solution, I don't need THAT software.
As a DM, Jamie's npc gen has filled my need until recently when I started coding my own. I am running a 2 mid level and 1 high level campaign and suddenly found myself needing some realistic NPC's.
Almost every product out today has the feel it was designed by people who do not even play RPG (Granted I know this is not the case). The programs do not take into account for house rules very well or the need to alter and edit the wierdest details or if they do, better have 2 Ph.D's to figure it out.. hehe, I say 2 cause I have 1 and it is still a pain.
I know business dictates you sell to the masses and thats why there are far fewer DM Tools then PC tools it seems. After all, each group usually has what? A few players and 1 DM. Yet, who needs to save time where they can? I know for myself, I spend the most amount of my time doing NPC stat blocks...I spend more time doing game mechanics then the actual story it seems.. *chuckles*
Note: Don't get me wrong, I love software but when the software is my problem and not the solution, I don't need THAT software.
JVisgaitis
Explorer
I have been using it since it first came out. There were a lot of quirks in the beginning, but most of those have been worked out. There still are quite a few niggly bits, but if you can create characters and such by hand, you can learn to spot the odd mistakes. It would take me a lot longer to stat out characters out if I didn't have it. So all in all, I think its money well spent.
Henry
Autoexreginated
Anyone who has not recently been to the E-Tools Web site (like I haven't) needs to know that they are developing a new package called RPG Toolkit; When it is complete (no release date yet), all support of NEW datasets for PCGen and E-Tools will CEASE. This may or may not affect your buying decisions.
For me, I dislike this news (because I will need to re-buy any data sets I use) but on the positive side, we are likely to get a stronger program out of the deal, that can handle some of the crazier rules ideas that are out there. The CMP coders really know their stuff, and a new program written by them from the ground up may mean a new supremely useful tool on the market.
For me, I dislike this news (because I will need to re-buy any data sets I use) but on the positive side, we are likely to get a stronger program out of the deal, that can handle some of the crazier rules ideas that are out there. The CMP coders really know their stuff, and a new program written by them from the ground up may mean a new supremely useful tool on the market.
kigmatzomat
Legend
PCGen does have a non-intuitive chain of file dependencies. I should know; I wrote the introductory instructions to editing/creating the data files after I got frustrated myself.
The flip side is that it is *very* powerful and flexible once you get used to it's particular syntax(es). I have a number of PrCs, custom items, and assorted feats and races that I've been migrating around for a couple of years now.
The 5.8 version of PCGen that will hopefully be out by/in January should be significantly faster than past versions. Stable releases have settled down to annually, indicating the code needing to support the datasets is becoming mature. GMGen, a plug-in for PCGen, is evolving into a very handy in-game support tool that I plan on giving a shot once I get a decent laptop.
One plus side for it is that it has a massive number of OGL products included. They are in various stages of accuracy depending on the number of people using them and the rules comprehension of the people who wrote the LSTs but data bugs tend to be fixed fairly rapidly though rules that require code changes may take a while to be implemented.
Oh yeah, it's free.
The flip side is that it is *very* powerful and flexible once you get used to it's particular syntax(es). I have a number of PrCs, custom items, and assorted feats and races that I've been migrating around for a couple of years now.
The 5.8 version of PCGen that will hopefully be out by/in January should be significantly faster than past versions. Stable releases have settled down to annually, indicating the code needing to support the datasets is becoming mature. GMGen, a plug-in for PCGen, is evolving into a very handy in-game support tool that I plan on giving a shot once I get a decent laptop.
One plus side for it is that it has a massive number of OGL products included. They are in various stages of accuracy depending on the number of people using them and the rules comprehension of the people who wrote the LSTs but data bugs tend to be fixed fairly rapidly though rules that require code changes may take a while to be implemented.
Oh yeah, it's free.
RPG Toolkit will indeed replace both eTools and PCGen, and will support far more than either program does currently.
As for the issue of re-buying data sets; Mynex (Rob Reed) -my boss and a CMP co-founder- now has a link to this thread an will have more info on the subject that should make everyone happy.
As for the issue of re-buying data sets; Mynex (Rob Reed) -my boss and a CMP co-founder- now has a link to this thread an will have more info on the subject that should make everyone happy.
Yeah, I *thought* (keyword there) I read on their website something about conversions for data sets and such. I could have easily caught the middle of a conversation dealing with goats.
RPG Toolkit has one scary aspect to it though, depending on when the initial beta version comes around.. lets say late 2005 to early 2006. This is getting very close to when some would think 4e news should start to hit the pipe. This is just the nature of the business and how it has ran in the past. So for me to be even remotely interested, there would have to be an upgrade option as a owner of Etools. Now I do know this is a completely new program and probably the better portion will be original code and you should get paid for it but customer loyalty also has a value. I can see a considerable dev time, perhaps a weekly diary like a few of the game designers have done might prove to work for CMP to help make users feel, more aware of the direction and the process. I know in my programming shops, we would have a friday meetings with customer and users, this I felt was key because it always let the the customer know where we were and helped us keep the project in the direction the customer needed.
Good luck at any rate
RPG Toolkit has one scary aspect to it though, depending on when the initial beta version comes around.. lets say late 2005 to early 2006. This is getting very close to when some would think 4e news should start to hit the pipe. This is just the nature of the business and how it has ran in the past. So for me to be even remotely interested, there would have to be an upgrade option as a owner of Etools. Now I do know this is a completely new program and probably the better portion will be original code and you should get paid for it but customer loyalty also has a value. I can see a considerable dev time, perhaps a weekly diary like a few of the game designers have done might prove to work for CMP to help make users feel, more aware of the direction and the process. I know in my programming shops, we would have a friday meetings with customer and users, this I felt was key because it always let the the customer know where we were and helped us keep the project in the direction the customer needed.
Good luck at any rate
Clearing some things up
Hey all, couple things to clear up for you about RPG Toolkit: Core Rules Foundry (That's the full name of the initial product btw)
1. If you've bought e-Tools from us directly - there will be an upgrade price available to you for RPGT itself.
2. If you've bought data sets from us, and wish to upgrade them to RPGToolkit, that will be done at no cost to you.
Yes, no cost, that's what I said. I can almost guarantee there'll be a few kinks in how we make that change over for people, but that'll be on our end and we'll deal with it. But we're not going to tell people "Oh sorry, the data sets you bought last week for e-Tools/PCGen are bad now, you have to buy RPGT versions if you want them"... That ain't cool.
The caveat, as I mentioned above, is that you have to have bought e-Tools or the data sets directly from us to get the RPGT upgrade price - and we have to show you have RPGT from us in order to get the upgraded data sets - this will cut down on piracy (along with our other security measures), we hope, a whole lot.
Another item to note - just because we're not producing any further data sets for e-Tools & PCGen does not mean support for those sets stops. They will be bug cleaned & updated as need be for up to 2 years after RPGT is released.
New sales of the existing data sets released we haven't determined yet, at least for PCGen, e-Tool will definately stop being sold the day RPGT is released.
Hope that clears a few things up, and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask away.
Hey all, couple things to clear up for you about RPG Toolkit: Core Rules Foundry (That's the full name of the initial product btw
)1. If you've bought e-Tools from us directly - there will be an upgrade price available to you for RPGT itself.
2. If you've bought data sets from us, and wish to upgrade them to RPGToolkit, that will be done at no cost to you.
Yes, no cost, that's what I said. I can almost guarantee there'll be a few kinks in how we make that change over for people, but that'll be on our end and we'll deal with it. But we're not going to tell people "Oh sorry, the data sets you bought last week for e-Tools/PCGen are bad now, you have to buy RPGT versions if you want them"... That ain't cool.
The caveat, as I mentioned above, is that you have to have bought e-Tools or the data sets directly from us to get the RPGT upgrade price - and we have to show you have RPGT from us in order to get the upgraded data sets - this will cut down on piracy (along with our other security measures), we hope, a whole lot.
Another item to note - just because we're not producing any further data sets for e-Tools & PCGen does not mean support for those sets stops. They will be bug cleaned & updated as need be for up to 2 years after RPGT is released.
New sales of the existing data sets released we haven't determined yet, at least for PCGen, e-Tool will definately stop being sold the day RPGT is released.
Hope that clears a few things up, and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask away.
Clearing some things up
Hey all, couple things to clear up for you about RPG Toolkit: Core Rules Foundry (That's the full name of the initial product btw)
1. If you've bought e-Tools from us directly - there will be an upgrade price available to you for RPGT itself.
2. If you've bought data sets from us, and wish to upgrade them to RPGToolkit, that will be done at no cost to you.
Yes, no cost, that's what I said. I can almost guarantee there'll be a few kinks in how we make that change over for people, but that'll be on our end and we'll deal with it. But we're not going to tell people "Oh sorry, the data sets you bought last week for e-Tools/PCGen are bad now, you have to buy RPGT versions if you want them"... That ain't cool.
The caveat, as I mentioned above, is that you have to have bought e-Tools or the data sets directly from us to get the RPGT upgrade price - and we have to show you have RPGT from us in order to get the upgraded data sets - this will cut down on piracy (along with our other security measures), we hope, a whole lot.
Another item to note - just because we're not producing any further data sets for e-Tools & PCGen does not mean support for those sets stops. They will be bug cleaned & updated as need be for up to 2 years after RPGT is released.
New sales of the existing data sets released we haven't determined yet, at least for PCGen, e-Tool will definately stop being sold the day RPGT is released.
Hope that clears a few things up, and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask away.
Hey all, couple things to clear up for you about RPG Toolkit: Core Rules Foundry (That's the full name of the initial product btw
)1. If you've bought e-Tools from us directly - there will be an upgrade price available to you for RPGT itself.
2. If you've bought data sets from us, and wish to upgrade them to RPGToolkit, that will be done at no cost to you.
Yes, no cost, that's what I said. I can almost guarantee there'll be a few kinks in how we make that change over for people, but that'll be on our end and we'll deal with it. But we're not going to tell people "Oh sorry, the data sets you bought last week for e-Tools/PCGen are bad now, you have to buy RPGT versions if you want them"... That ain't cool.
The caveat, as I mentioned above, is that you have to have bought e-Tools or the data sets directly from us to get the RPGT upgrade price - and we have to show you have RPGT from us in order to get the upgraded data sets - this will cut down on piracy (along with our other security measures), we hope, a whole lot.
Another item to note - just because we're not producing any further data sets for e-Tools & PCGen does not mean support for those sets stops. They will be bug cleaned & updated as need be for up to 2 years after RPGT is released.
New sales of the existing data sets released we haven't determined yet, at least for PCGen, e-Tool will definately stop being sold the day RPGT is released.
Hope that clears a few things up, and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask away.
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