E6 - how does it change the feel of the game

[Li Shenron]

This thread is very useful!

One question for those experienced in E6 and its variants:

How often did you allow the PCs to find and use scrolls (et simili) to cast spells of a level higher than the max allowed by class?

 

[S'mon]

This thread is very useful!

One question for those experienced in E6 and its variants:

How often did you allow the PCs to find and use scrolls (et simili) to cast spells of a level higher than the max allowed by class?

For my E8/E10 Yggsburgh game, there is a scroll of raise dead knocking around Black Fang's Dungeon in the Pathfinder Beginner Box, but the first group of PCs to take it from the dragon then got eaten by the dragon, the second group allied with the dragon & his medusa friend, so it's still in the dragon's hoard.

Otherwise no scrolls etc over about caster level 6 have appeared, that I can recall. Any level-6+ spells would be incredibly rare and would only work in special high-magic zones.

 

[Gilladian]

This thread is very useful!

One question for those experienced in E6 and its variants:

How often did you allow the PCs to find and use scrolls (et simili) to cast spells of a level higher than the max allowed by class?

I think the PCs in my campaign have ONE scroll of a 4th level spell. I let it in by accident. They know that to cast it will take at least a 3 day ritual, or 3 casters of the requisite level.

To cast those 4th level spells that "do exist" (mostly clerical and a few wizard so far) I have been saying that it takes "many" casters, but haven't defined how many!

When they wanted to raise one companion, I told them they'd have to get BOTH temple leaders in town to agree to work together on the casting; they gave up in a hurry.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm currently running Pathfinder Beginner Box and again it looks like I'll be making it an E10 game, Pathfinder advancement seems a bit slower than in 3e and I'm making every PC start at 1st, which is keeping things in the sweet spot nicely.

I don't know what the Beginner Box does for XP, but the full Pathfinder game has three speeds for leveling. And frankly, even the "fast" option is still more XP than d20--i.e. slower.

What pace feels right depends greatly on a lot of details of the game, including how frequently you play, and for how long, and how much action you tend to pack into each session. For my group and my playstyle, I know for sure that the 3.5 method is way too fast. The Pathfinder "slow" method would seem about right.

The actual tables are right there; I haven't gone to the trouble to do the algebra to figure out the algorithm that it uses to calculate XP needed per level. I'd be curious to see what it is, though.

 

[Desdichado]

This thread is very useful!

One question for those experienced in E6 and its variants:

How often did you allow the PCs to find and use scrolls (et simili) to cast spells of a level higher than the max allowed by class?

Last time I ran, there was one such that made an appearance in the entire campaign. It was a spell that would summon Dagon (the CR 33 version from Dragon Magazine) up from the depths of the sea, although it granted absolutely no control over him.

Needless to say, it wasn't actually used. Although keeping it out of the hands of one of the PCs became a kind of running joke with the rest of them.

Oh, did I mention I prefer a low magic Cthulhu-esque horror/fantasy hybrid? Yeah... because I do.

 

[S'mon]

I don't know what the Beginner Box does for XP, but the full Pathfinder game has three speeds for leveling. And frankly, even the "fast" option is still more XP than d20--i.e. slower.

The BB uses the medium track. Also, NPCs in Pathfinder have lower (more realistic) CR than in 3e, which slows things down.

 

[Desdichado]

I know this is a little bit off topic, but how complete is the BB, anyway? How many levels does it provide, and how much detail around chargen compared to the "full" game? Is it a kinda Pathfinder E6 type experience in its own right, or is it even more basic than that?

Actually, I think I bought that as a pdf. I should probably make the time to read it and see what exactly it is that I got. I mostly buy the el cheapo Pathfinder pdf because at $10 a pop, they're worth it for the ability to extract the artwork alone.

 

[S'mon]

I know this is a little bit off topic, but how complete is the BB, anyway? How many levels does it provide, and how much detail around chargen compared to the "full" game? Is it a kinda Pathfinder E6 type experience in its own right, or is it even more basic than that?

Actually, I think I bought that as a pdf. I should probably make the time to read it and see what exactly it is that I got. I mostly buy the el cheapo Pathfinder pdf because at $10 a pop, they're worth it for the ability to extract the artwork alone.

It has 5 full levels. Fighter Wizard Cleric Rogue. Human Elf Dwarf. Generally about 10 spells per Wizard or Cleric spell level. It has a decent number of feats, and everything a GM needs for a level 1-5 game, with a good number of monsters up to CR 8. Great encounter tables and minor/major magic item tables - they include +2 gear and other stuff you can't make at 5th level. It does not include item-creation rules.

Add "+1 feat per 8,000 XP after 5th level" and it's a full E5 game.

 

[Yora]

The BB uses the medium track. Also, NPCs in Pathfinder have lower (more realistic) CR than in 3e, which slows things down.

When I work on my setting, I always try to remember "all those city guards and thugs are 1st level warriors, with gate guards at the castle and highwaymen maybe being 2nd level fighters". Everything else is based on how the new NPC I am working on would fare against such opponents.
If the character could not beat up a partrol of 10 regular guards without any real danger, then he's probably only 4th level or lower.

 

[S'mon]

When I work on my setting, I always try to remember "all those city guards and thugs are 1st level warriors, with gate guards at the castle and highwaymen maybe being 2nd level fighters". Everything else is based on how the new NPC I am working on would fare against such opponents.
If the character could not beat up a partrol of 10 regular guards without any real danger, then he's probably only 4th level or lower.

That's a good idea - I've seen a lot of settings where the average blacksmith is a 6th level Fighter who could easily defeat the entire 50-strong 0-level City Guard. Something about giving NPCs names seems to inspire designers to overload them with levels, items etc, while faceless NPCs are treated as tissue paper.

I like how 4e makes the typical town guard 3rd level, it creates some space below that for bandits, thugs and alley-trash. In my Yggsburgh AD&D & Pathfinder games, I follow the Yggsburgh listings where the gate guards and veterans are heavily armoured 1st level Fighters, the garrison troops are 1st level Warriors/1 hit die, but above average hp and still good stats. A typical NPC is 1st level NPC class/0th level Normal Man, important 'Named' knights, officers etc tend to be 3rd-4th level, with some 5th, 6th-8th is very rare and nearly no one over 8th (I have Cerdamont the Striped Mage as an 'Epic' 9th level NPC). A famous warrior might be 4th or 5th level. I got rid of the AD&D "1 attack per level vs 0th levellers" rule, and mass destruction spells are very rare, so a squad of 1st level soldiers can take down most foes ok.