E6: The Game Inside D&D (new revision)

[HeinorNY]

I would rather get a feat on a farily regular basis than play for six months before I get that level and several bonus feats. I believe most players would feel this way as well.

I understand and agree.
Based on this quote, what do you think about my second xp progression? There you also get a feat at a regular basis, every 6000xp since level 1, but gain levels slower.

Nobody answered me about the ECL of a 3rd level character with 3 extra feats. It's not a challenge, I really want to know that in order to improve my idea for my group. Thanks.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Reply 255 has really stretched the screen. It makes it hard to read the posts.

I wonder if putting those graphics in sblocks would help?

 

[Ry]

Cheiro - done.

 

[knight_isa]

Nobody answered me about the ECL of a 3rd level character with 3 extra feats. It's not a challenge, I really want to know that in order to improve my idea for my group. Thanks.

Well, I'd say it's pretty close to 3.

1. 3 extra feats at first level is probably about ECL +1. I'm no expert here; it's just a gut feel. If you buy Unearthed Arcana's argument that the benefits for an ECL +1 race start to pale in comparison to the level adjustment around level 3 (and thus like the optional rule to buy it off), then I think it's safe to say that it's still close to 3. Maybe 3.5-ish.

2. This is based entirely upon anecdotal evidence, but I've seen more than one thread about DM's giving players a feat every level instead of every third level. IIRC, they reported noticing almost no power difference. The only real difference that I recall hearing about was that more players chose "sub-par" feats because they had so many feats they could burn a few feats on "in-character" feats without skipping over the more powerful feats.

I'm about to start a campaign (hopefully next week) using the feat/level, so I'll see then (well, kind of--there are only two players left since the rest moved out of state). We'll be starting at third level. I ran E6 (well, E8, actually) passed the players, but they weren't too enthused, so we're not going that route at the moment, though.

 

[tvar]

rycanda, can you (or anyone really) give some of your thoughts about what some of the difficulties are for adapting E6 for some other "sweet spot" other than level 6? I was personally thinking of trying it out for level 12 (yeah, it's much more powerful than 6, but I actually enjoy play a lot at that level, and it is before some of the more "world shattering" spells enter the picture).

It was mentioned briefly at the beginning of this thread (I think) that it becomes more difficult to figure out CRs at higher levels. Can you expand on that? Are there other difficulties that you foresee?

And thanks for developing this. Great work!

 

[White Whale]

I think the E6 idea is interesting, but like some other posters I feel the advancement beyond level 6 may be a bit dull.

This made me think of a gestalt system similar to the one Dragonblade275 suggested, and I don't think there would be that much hassle to do actually:
-all numbers (saves, BAB,...) are equal to the maximum achievable with any composition of 6 levels of the character.
-Hitpoints are given at each level up. However, the character's hitpoints may not exceed the maximum that any 6 levels of the character's classes could be.

Example for explanation - Clr4/Ftr2/Rog3
BAB = 5 (Ftr2/Clr4)
REF = 4 (Rog3/Clr3)
FORT = 7 (Ftr2/Clr4)
WILL = 4 (Clr4/any2)
Max Hitpoints = 52 + 6*CON (Ftr2/Clr4)

If this character now advanced as a barbarian next level, this would be the result:
BAB = 5 (Ftr2/Bar1/Clr3)
REF = 4 (Rog3/Clr3)
FORT = 8 (Ftr2/Bar1/Clr3)
WILL = 4 (Clr4/any2)
Max Hitpoints = 56 + 6*CON (Bar1/Ftr2/Clr3)

...and of course the character gained all abilities of the barbarian level.

IMO, this approach seems more interesting than E6. It gives more abilities that are not out of hand powerwise, and it encourages multiclassing. It is probably more powerful advancement than E6 though, and I would ban prestige classes entirely.

 

[green slime]

I would like a clarification on your death flag rule.

Is it raised only for the encounter, the adventure, or does it stay raised until the character can afford to spend 6 conviction points to lower it again? Because then theoritcally the character could wander around for years under the "death flag", which sort of makes me wonder if such a character would have their maximum conviction points raised by 6 for the entire duration?

Some of my players seem to accept death rather easily.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

It would essentially make every PC the same. By the time you got to higher levels, everyone would be some variation of combatant/caster/skill monkey (6). E6 as it stands makes you six level choices very important.

I would also say that granting max HP would be a good idea in general. I know your achieving it as a cap, not a per level grant. But max HP seem to fit E6. I may just be saying that since I already grant max HP in a normal game.

 

[Ry]

I would like a clarification on your death flag rule.

Is it raised only for the encounter, the adventure, or does it stay raised until the character can afford to spend 6 conviction points to lower it again? Because then theoritcally the character could wander around for years under the "death flag", which sort of makes me wonder if such a character would have their maximum conviction points raised by 6 for the entire duration?

Some of my players seem to accept death rather easily.

The intention is that PCs never regenerate to more than 6 Conviction. So if a PC raised their flag, they get 6 extra, and while this gives them more than their maximum (6) they won't regenerate these extra; the extra points stick around till used but a PC won't regenerate past 6.

 

[Ry]

tvar, I don't know that much about high-level play (which for me is anything over 10) because my d20 games have tended to end around 10th or earlier when I wasn't using E6. I also have run a homebrew a lot.

But this is my thought: In a 12th level capped world, the players can do a LOT of stuff. They can acquire a LOT of items. Between the feats available, the spells available, and the number of magic items that the PCs could find or create in such a world, I think that the PCs could get up to 20th-level abilities with enough time and development. This is because they can use their wealth of items (that they can legitimately create) as leverage in combination with feats and the other abilities they have.

So I would expect that if you used E6 at 12th level, you'd find it a slower progression between 12th and 20th than D&D, and if that's the game you want, excellent. But I doubt that you'll see the speed of play and prep that really shows up with E6.