Early Ultimate Magus, Yes?

[ThirdWizard]

Exactly. If you're a Sor1/Wiz4, and you take Practiced Spellcaster at level 1 or 3 for your Sorcerer, your caster levels will be Sor5/Wiz4 going into the PrC, so you advance Wiz instead of Sor when you advance the lower-level class.

I don't see how that makes sense. It says:

"+1 level of lower-level existing arcane casting class"

Nowhere in there does it mention caster level.

 

[Seeten]

Practised Spellcaster gives a bonus to spellcaster level that is limited by HD... I wouldn't allow it to stack with other improvements to spellcasterlevel if that increases the effective spellcasterlevel above the HD.

One question: Last time I read the UM prClass, the first level didn't give a wizard spellcasting advancement...?

It advances the "lower-level existing arcane casting class". In the presented builds here that would be the sorcerer class, right?

I guess that's why everyone takes PracSpell for the sorcerer level... to be able to increase the wizard spellcasting.

Specifically, it isnt picked for Wizard, and the only Caster level above your HD is Wizard, so it has no effect there. All it really does is lets you get level increases in wizard rather than sorcerer, thus allowing you to lose only two caster levels instead of 4, and to cast 9th level spells, instead of 8th.

 

[Seeten]

I don't see how that makes sense. It says:

"+1 level of lower-level existing arcane casting class"

Nowhere in there does it mention caster level.

It says that in the table. In the text it explicitly states Caster Level. Text always trumps table.

 

[satori01]

To wind up with the spell casting of a 9th level sorcerer is not that particularly useful. I would suggest going straight Wiz or Sorc and selecting another PrC.

As for Precious Apprentice......the feat give you the power to cast A SINGLE 2nd level spell. How does being able to cast a single 2 level spell meet the requirements of being able to cast 2nd level spells.

Now if the requirement was " Able to cast a single 2nd level spell", then you would be golden.
BTW please do not argue that this is the same as
a Wizard with only one or even no second level spells in their spell book, or a Spontaneous caster that only knows one 2nd level spell.

We all know that it is not.

 

[Darklone]

To wind up with the spell casting of a 9th level sorcerer is not that particularly useful. I would suggest going straight Wiz or Sorc and selecting another PrC.

Casting Fly on the whole group, Imp Invis and having several fireballs every day extra doesn't look too bad to me. YMMV.

 

[NilesB]

Casting fly on the whole group looks less good when you realize that you are giving up high level spell slots that could be used for spells like say... mass fly.

Using practiced spellcaster to reduce the hit to your high level spellcasting is assumed in the balance of the class. It makes it a colorful but slightly less powerful alternative to straight wizard, as opposed to a quick road to irrelevance and death.

 

[Votan]

Precocious apprentice is a strange feat. It helps a level 1 or 2 wizard a fair bit, is somewhat helpful at levels 3 and 4, and is a minor boost at best trending towards being useless at levels 5 +.

The closest analogy I can find to it in the rules is the feat toughness which has similar properties. Therefore, unless you allow it to be used for Prestige Class entry (a nice use) it just ends up being something that is not worth considering as a feat.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

As for Precious Apprentice......the feat give you the power to cast A SINGLE 2nd level spell. How does being able to cast a single 2 level spell meet the requirements of being able to cast 2nd level spells.

Logically, if you can cast a single 2nd level spell, you have the ability to cast 2nd level spells. If you did not have the ability to cast 2nd level spells, you could not cast that spell, by virtue of it being a 2nd level spell. Since you can cast the spell, you have the ability.

A 2nd level bard with a Cha of 11 can not cast 1st level spells, and so would not qualify for the spontaneous caster requirements of the PrC. A 2nd level bard with a Cha of 12 can cast a single 1st level spell each day, and so does qualify for the PrC.

we all know that it is not.

Be careful with your rhetorical generalizations. They're a pretty big red flag labelling a weak position.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Casting fly on the whole group looks less good when you realize that you are giving up high level spell slots that could be used for spells like say... mass fly.

Using practiced spellcaster to reduce the hit to your high level spellcasting is assumed in the balance of the class. It makes it a colorful but slightly less powerful alternative to straight wizard, as opposed to a quick road to irrelevance and death.

Actually, the metamagic tricks were intended to make it a colourful and powerful alternative to straight wizard. The Practiced Spellcaster trick is an oversight.

 

[NilesB]

The metamagic tricks aren't any better than the metamagic tricks of any number of PrCs that don't kill your access to higher level spells.