Eberron and Fiendish Codex

[Merifluous]

I recently finished the fiendish codex, and quite enjoyed it. I have a second level PC in my current Eberron campaign targeting the Knight of the Chalice PrC from complete warrior (as a CLR/RGR of the silver flame), and the book gave me all kinds of ideas - however, a lot of the cool stuff just doesn't seem to click with Eberron. I know the Keith Baker has said the settings wasn't designed with the Abyss, Demon Lords, etc etc in mind, and I also agree it doesn't quite get the right feel. On the flip side, I think the black scrolls of Ahm and their associated group fits in nicely with Eberron, but I am having some difficulties marrying some of the concepts about the Abyss and Demon Lords with the setting.

I'm curious if anyone else has been wrestling with the same questions, and any neat ideas people have came up with to apply some of the cool things from the Fiendish Codex to Eberron (without seeming half-baked, i.e., cram a portal to Sigil in some place and send the PCs to the abyss from there - I'm thinking a cool way to integrate it with the existing cosmology).

 

[ruleslawyer]

Here's one basic idea:

The daelkyr and the obyriths are the same thing; or, alternatively, the daelkyr are the true progeny of the obyriths. Xoriat is essentially a prison plane, the realm of outer darkness and insanity to which the tanar'ri consigned the obyriths when they burst forth and assumed control of the Abyss. The daelkyr's creations (beholders, mind flayers, etc.) are not built for conquest of mere material worlds like Eberron, but rather to take back the primal Abyss stolen from the obyriths uncounted millenia ago.

As for the Infinite Layers of the Abyss: Perhaps the Abyss is an uncounted distance from Eberron, cosmologically speaking. Perhaps the daelkyr *knew* that Eberron and the Abyss would be in proximity one day, and their incursion into Eberron 9000 years ago was but a preliminary step to colonizing Eberron as a stepping stone for their invasion of the Abyss. Perhaps the tanar'ri lords have been transporting their consciousnesses across the infinite interplanar spaces to Eberron in order to recruit followers for the struggle that they know will come someday, seeding the world with demonic cults.

 

[Ripzerai]

Eberron is the one setting where the CR levels of FCI's demon lords make sense. Make them generals of the demon armies in Shevarath. The obyrith lords might be rakshasa rajas imprisoned in Khyber. The lesser obyriths could be creations of the Daelkyr.

The Abyssal layers themselves are the real Abyss, the Great Wheel's Abyss, which was in conjunction with Sheverath eons ago, from which the demons originally came, and only intersects with it rarely.

 

[Glyfair]

The Abyss doesn't translate well into Eberron. However, there are plenty of opportunities to carry those things in the Abyss into Eberron.

WotC has barely touched discussion of the planes, except for manifest zones and the like. Even Keith has given very little information (possibly because he doesn't want to trod on WotC's feet when they finally deign to give some information on it). In fact, when I suggest on the official forums that Eberron's planes need some more coverage, the fans tend to suggest that it's not needed, and the planes can mostly be ignored except as they deal with Eberron (which, IMO, is taking it too far).

So, the planes are certainly areas where you can have the demon lords with their own retinues. Just remember that demons are scattered across the various planes. Some are even native to Eberron (very possibly being members of the Lords of the Dust).

The converse of this is that demons might very well have devils working for them. There isn't necessarily an instant antipathy between them (any more than there would be between a Chaotic Good outsider & a Lawful Good outsider). So, if a erinyes and succubus working together seems cool, there is nothing working against it (in fact, they might even have one of those working rivalrys going).

If something seems like fun, just look and see where it might fit best. Does Juiblex have a plane of oozes, slimes, etc? Sounds like it might be an area down in Khyber. Is there a battlefield of eternal practice for war? Sounds like an area in Shargash.

 

[Merifluous]

The Abyss doesn't translate well into Eberron. However, there are plenty of opportunities to carry those things in the Abyss into Eberron.

WotC has barely touched discussion of the planes, except for manifest zones and the like. Even Keith has given very little information (possibly because he doesn't want to trod on WotC's feet when they finally deign to give some information on it). In fact, when I suggest on the official forums that Eberron's planes need some more coverage, the fans tend to suggest that it's not needed, and the planes can mostly be ignored except as they deal with Eberron (which, IMO, is taking it too far).

.

Well, I agree with the other fans take in so much as that there is still a lot do in Eberron since it is such a young setting with a lot of interesting stuff going on on the material plane. but given my PC and how much I liked FC, I really wanted to squeeze some demonic stuff in.

Regardless, thanks for the ideas - I think I am probably going to avoid using the Abyss altogether unless the campaign gets epic (which it probably won't) but I really like the daelkyr as obryth angle - I'm thinking I can get some mileage out of that. Now if one of my PCs would just be an aberration hunter...

 

[Kishin]

Well, I agree with the other fans take in so much as that there is still a lot do in Eberron since it is such a young setting with a lot of interesting stuff going on on the material plane. but given my PC and how much I liked FC, I really wanted to squeeze some demonic stuff in.

You could always transport one of the Layers of the Abyss to the Demon Wastes. The land there is unnatural and unpredictable as is, and sliding in a little canyon of horrors in the form of Shedaklah, Hollow's Heart or Thanatos wouldn't be too much of a stretch, IMO.

On the other hand, Androlynne would fit near perfectly into Shavarath. The Iron Wastes could be a part of Risia, or even a particularly dark Manifest Zone to the same appearing in the Icehorns or the Ironroot Mountains.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Swamp Druid]

Here's one basic idea:

The daelkyr and the obyriths are the same thing; or, alternatively, the daelkyr are the true progeny of the obyriths. Xoriat is essentially a prison plane, the realm of outer darkness and insanity to which the tanar'ri consigned the obyriths when they burst forth and assumed control of the Abyss. The daelkyr's creations (beholders, mind flayers, etc.) are not built for conquest of mere material worlds like Eberron, but rather to take back the primal Abyss stolen from the obyriths uncounted millenia ago.

As for the Infinite Layers of the Abyss: Perhaps the Abyss is an uncounted distance from Eberron, cosmologically speaking. Perhaps the daelkyr *knew* that Eberron and the Abyss would be in proximity one day, and their incursion into Eberron 9000 years ago was but a preliminary step to colonizing Eberron as a stepping stone for their invasion of the Abyss. Perhaps the tanar'ri lords have been transporting their consciousnesses across the infinite interplanar spaces to Eberron in order to recruit followers for the struggle that they know will come someday, seeding the world with demonic cults.

Those are some cool ideas.

 

[Glyfair]

Well, I agree with the other fans take in so much as that there is still a lot do in Eberron since it is such a young setting with a lot of interesting stuff going on on the material plane. but given my PC and how much I liked FC, I really wanted to squeeze some demonic stuff in.

Here is my take. Some of those people said "areas like the Eldreen Reaches haven't been covered" (fill in your own area of Khourvaire without a major focus).

For me, I can easily create my own adventures and flavor for the Eldreen Reaches with what I know. We have the basic information, filling in the blanks is easy because we know about fantasy forest kingdoms and can apply it to the Eldreen Reaches.

The planes are another matter. These are clearly different from planes from other D&D settings (whether you subscribe to the "universal great wheel" or the more individualized appoaches). I want some basic coverage on the outer planes similiar to what we know about the various areas on Eberron. I'm not talking about a book on the planes, just a few Dragonshards about certain planes or a Dragon article or two.

What planes have been covered? Only two have had any significant coverage. Dal Quori has had a lot of coverage and Xoriat has had some references (mostly to similiarities to the Far Realm). What do these realms have in common? They aren't reachable from Eberron. Coverage of them isn't of much interest to the potential planar traveller.

What other plane has had some small coverage? Dolurrh, because it's properties means characters coming back from the dead will be a very rare occurance, even if Raise Dead spell were more common. So, the coverage comes to a plane where you aren't expected to come back from.

What about the planes that medium level characters can visit? A paragraph in the campaign setting, and nothing else. There is a huge blank spot here that stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[Ripzerai]

The planes are another matter. These are clearly different from planes from other D&D settings

They're clearly almost identical, to my mind. What's the point of detailing Daanvi when the Manual of the Planes (and the Planescape setting before that) details Arcadia, a plane that's almost exactly like it? The same is true with Dolurrh and Hades, Fernia and the Elemental Plane of Fire, Kythri and Limbo, Risia and the Elemental Plane of Cold/Paraelemental Plane of Ice/Iron Wastes/Cania, Shavarath and the Abyss/Acheron/Baator/Celestia, Dal Quor and the Region of Dreams, Xoriat and the Far Realm, Thalanis and Faerie, Lamannia and the Beastlands?

All the tools already exist, and it's child's play to put them together. That's the point of giving Eberron planes that are nearly synonymous with those in the Manual of the Planes - so it would be easy to plug in details on the relevant planes from other cosmologies, and easy to use creatures and scenarios from those other cosmologies with Eberron. Eberron is meant to be a campaign where anything from any other part of D&D can be easily plugged in, and its planes are no different.

 

[Glyfair]

They're clearly almost identical, to my mind.

Then why bother covering the Eldreen Reaches? We have the Gnarley Forest, which is almost identical in my mind (at least as close as your examples).

There are definite differences in these cases. The outer planes assumptions of other campaigns don't apply to Eberron's planar structure and those differences will change thing. To start with the obvious, the various planes don't have associated alignments. When you go to a plane you can't expect everyone to have a similiar ethical outlook.