Eberron novel line. Any standouts?

[shaylon]

Well, Lei was far from a true Mary Sue. She was a plot device for sure, but she couldn't do everything. I just finished the trilogy this week and it just had too many character mysteries and too many things left unanswered. Also, while well written there was too much in the book that is not in the RPG. As the first trilogy ity should have been an example of what the RPG is and not have so much depend on things not in the game.

Keith announced on his blog that he will be revisiting these characters to tie up loose ends in the future. I am with you; I wanted to see more resolution.

I really enjoyed the series but the story could have been managed a little better.

 

[Hellcow]

I firmly believe that Baker simply ended them because he didn't know what to do next.

First off, if that's the way it comes across, that's the way it comes across - nothing I say will change that. The Dreaming Dark books were my first novels, and I'm the first to say that I learned a vast amount with each one... and that if I could do it over, I'd do many things differently, especially the end of book three.

With that said, I certainly knew where the story was going from begining to end, and I know exactly where it will go next. I know now that it was a mistake to leave as many things hanging as I did. However, the situation in the epilogue isn't intended to be a random "What the %&$^ is going on" scenario. The events leading up to the epilogue are set in motion all the way back in City of Towers; it's a convergence of things spread throughout the series, not a random "Let's end with a weird twist!"

But of course, if the average reader doesn't SEE that, that's my fault as a writer... and I'm the first to admit that I played my cards too close to the chest. I have seen people post who've figured out what's going on - but the number who are just confused by it shows that it's flawed.

Also, while well written there was too much in the book that is not in the RPG.

This is a valid concern. There are a few things that immediately jump to mind, such as a certain very unusual warforged character. You can easily say "If I was making a PC, how would I make that character?" to which the answer is "By the current rules, you can't." The main thing is that I wrote it as I'd run it. With characters with unusual backgrounds, that is how I'd run it - with the PC finding out more about his or her background along the way, and having to learn what it means. So it's a question of style of play. Taking a character like Harmattan or Hydra, there's no existing template for them, but I know how I'd use them in my campaign.

Likewise, I did come up with stats for the characters. I can pretty much tell you the game definition of anything Lei does, and it's all within the scope of a 7th-10th level artificer (as things progress). A critical point on Lei is that she uses spell storing item a LOT; if it looks like she can do "anything", it's because it's an extremely versatile infusion. Off the top of my head, I remember her using it for glitterdust, haste, shocking grasp, cure wounds, daylight, and dimension door, but I'm sure I've forgotten a lot of things.

Likewise, Lakashtai uses psionic abilities quite often without announcing "I'm using psionic suggestion." She uses psionic charm, psionic suggestion, brain lock, and a bunch of other powers along the way. But it often plays as "people find themselves mysteriously doing what she says" as opposed to her proclaiming "DO WHAT I SAY!"

Anyhow, there's certainly a few things that extend beyond the rules, no question. But if I'm not directly basing an action on the rules, I at least try to make sure I know how it would work. If you're curious about a specific thing and can ask about it without major spoilers, I'm happy to explain how I'd translate it to tabletop... though I recognize that many of the stranger things are tied to spoilers.

 

[Crothian]

The Warforged for me where the biggest things that where in the novel but not in the RPG. The other is the Spoiler

Spoiler

stolen Dragonmarks that get stored in vials and the other weird things going on with those guys

spoiler ends. It's not that it is a bad thing, but as the first trilogy for the setting I can see people reading the books and then looking towards the RPG to see how it is all done. It was a fine set of stories and I do like how the events that started in City of Towers reach all the way till the end.

I finished the The Grieving Tree today and liked it. I think it helps that they are exploring areas and countries the RPG books haven't really covered.

 

[WayneLigon]

I finished Orb of Xoriat today. It was a very good book, though I disagree somewhat with the ending. Though I can see why it was done that way. I really did like the characters a great deal, and we get to see a lot of Flamekeep in it. The same guy is writing the first book in The Inquisitives series which I think comes out this month (if it's not already out).

 

[jonathan swift]

I finished Orb of Xoriat today. It was a very good book, though I disagree somewhat with the ending. Though I can see why it was done that way. I really did like the characters a great deal, and we get to see a lot of Flamekeep in it. The same guy is writing the first book in The Inquisitives series which I think comes out this month (if it's not already out).

I saw it today and almost picked it up but our local Booksamillion is horribly run and checking out would have taken too long and made me late for plans. I'll pick it up soon though.

 

[Hellcow]

It's not that it is a bad thing, but as the first trilogy for the setting I can see people reading the books and then looking towards the RPG to see how it is all done.

It's certainly a valid concern, Crothian. Looking to the example you quoted, there isn't any existing way to do the thing described using standard rules. Of course, the ECS DOES actually provide one way to accomplish even this outlandish thing... the eldritch machine.

Eberron seeks to capture some of the mood of the pulps. A key aspect of the pulps is villains coming up with bizarre schemes that generally aren't replicated again. When the cerebrozombificon is destroy, the villain turns up next week with an entirely different scheme; he doesn't just try to build another one somewhere else. The eldritch machine is the tool for those stories - for the DM who wants to introduce something that doesn't quite fit the rules, but makes a great story. Say I want Demise to target Sharn with a device that causes any living creature killed in the city to rise as a zombie. If it's destroyed, she can't rebuild it, because "it used a Qabalrin crystal pendant as its core, and that was the last one in existence." Bingo - eldritch machine.

So in the example you call out, it's not supposed to be something anyone can do. It's not supposed to become a core concern of the setting. It's a bizarre and disturbing technique developed by that individual - and something he may or may not be able to do again in the future. If I HAD to explain how it was done in game, I'd say that the "crystal bath" was an eldritch machine - and hopefully, it's gone for good.

So I agree - it's not clear to the reader what it is, and it is outside of the scope of what a PC could do. However, given the restrictions we see - it's bound to a specific location, requires unusual components, etc - If you wanted to use it in your campaign, I'd call it an eldritch machine.

 

[Klaus]

It's certainly a valid concern, Crothian. Looking to the example you quoted, there isn't any existing way to do the thing described using standard rules. Of course, the ECS DOES actually provide one way to accomplish even this outlandish thing... the eldritch machine.

Eberron seeks to capture some of the mood of the pulps. A key aspect of the pulps is villains coming up with bizarre schemes that generally aren't replicated again. When the cerebrozombificon is destroy, the villain turns up next week with an entirely different scheme; he doesn't just try to build another one somewhere else. The eldritch machine is the tool for those stories - for the DM who wants to introduce something that doesn't quite fit the rules, but makes a great story. Say I want Demise to target Sharn with a device that causes any living creature killed in the city to rise as a zombie. If it's destroyed, she can't rebuild it, because "it used a Qabalrin crystal pendant as its core, and that was the last one in existence." Bingo - eldritch machine.

So in the example you call out, it's not supposed to be something anyone can do. It's not supposed to become a core concern of the setting. It's a bizarre and disturbing technique developed by that individual - and something he may or may not be able to do again in the future. If I HAD to explain how it was done in game, I'd say that the "crystal bath" was an eldritch machine - and hopefully, it's gone for good.

So I agree - it's not clear to the reader what it is, and it is outside of the scope of what a PC could do. However, given the restrictions we see - it's bound to a specific location, requires unusual components, etc - If you wanted to use it in your campaign, I'd call it an eldritch machine.

You DO realize you are now obligated to write up the cerebrozombificon, don't you?

I'm having a hard time reading this thread, since I haven't read Gates of Night yet and I must skim the posts with my peripheral vision to make sure there's no spoilers.

 

[Randolpho]

I only just now noticed this post:

First off, if that's the way it comes across, that's the way it comes across - nothing I say will change that. The Dreaming Dark books were my first novels, and I'm the first to say that I learned a vast amount with each one... and that if I could do it over, I'd do many things differently, especially the end of book three.

Wow... Keith Baker, I presume? That'll teach me to spout off online; you never know when you'll actually get answered!

Look, please take what I said with a hefty piece of salt. I actually very much enjoy Eberron as a gaming setting, especially Sharn and Warforged. I even broke my own long-standing rule against fanfic for Eberron. Not that it's any good, mind, but I always swore I wouldn't write fanfic. I broke that rule because I enjoyed one game I was in so much that I wanted to bring my PC and some of the other PCs to life, so I wrote a short story about her. Funny thing -- I ended up liking what I did with one of the other PCs so much that it's slowly turning in to a novel about him instead. Go figure.

As I reflect back on the problems I had with your novels, I realize that my problem was really that your books read too much like playing a game of D&D. I realize from stuff you've mentioned here that such was your goal, and obviously you have a pretty strong market for such a book. It's just not my style, I guess... maybe I'm wired wrong.

But of course, if the average reader doesn't SEE that, that's my fault as a writer... and I'm the first to admit that I played my cards too close to the chest. I have seen people post who've figured out what's going on - but the number who are just confused by it shows that it's flawed.

I'd very much like to know what you were going for with the epilogue of the third book.

 

[Crothian]

So I agree - it's not clear to the reader what it is, and it is outside of the scope of what a PC could do. However, given the restrictions we see - it's bound to a specific location, requires unusual components, etc - If you wanted to use it in your campaign, I'd call it an eldritch machine.

Thanks! I admit I was looking at the novels too much like an RPG and I forgot the pulp story aspects they possess.

 

[Crothian]

Wow... Keith Baker, I presume?

Just to confirm so everyone knows

Hellcow = Keith Baker