[Eberron] Suspicions about Dal Quor

[Jürgen Hubert]

From "Secrets of Xen'drik" we know that it was the last incarnation of Dal Quor that invaded that continent - not the next-to-last, the last. But aren't the "Light" and the "Dark" supposed to trade places in Dal Quor with each Turning of the Age?

Good question.

I see two possibilities:

- The giants were the aggressors in this war, and Dal Quor was only defending itself. Not quite out of the question. But it would have taken some real desperation - or a really big accident - to unleash such forces to stop Dal Quor instead of trying to sue for a peace of sorts under these circumstances.

- The "Light" side of Dal Quor was not as benevolent as the kalashtar believe - and this might also be true of the next incarnation of Dal Quor. Which means that the entire belief system of the kalashtar is a sham. It's quite possible - probable even - that the quori who created the kalashtar actually believed in the goodness of the "Light" (after all, the quori seem to know little about the last age other than what they can plunder from the ruins of the past), but if so, they are all going to be very disappointed if they actually succeed in their goal. If the kalashtar actually survive the change in Dal Quor...

Your thoughts?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think #2 sounds like a lot of evil fun, especially if the kalashtar player characters figure it out late on in a campaign dedicated to changing the status quo.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I think #2 sounds like a lot of evil fun, especially if the kalashtar player characters figure it out late on in a campaign dedicated to changing the status quo.

Of course, few among the other kalashtar will likely believe him. After all, they have built their whole life and society around working towards this goal. If he presses the issue, he will be an outcast among them - a prophet whose words no one wishes to hear.

And even if they believe him, what are they supposed to do? The current quori need to be stopped anyway, and the turning of the age would do that quite nicely - apparently, it took the quori tens of thousands of years to gain their current power, and it should be similar for the next generation, too (though something needs to be done about the "empty vessels" - they are going to be trouble...).

 

[Glyfair]

But aren't the "Light" and the "Dark" supposed to trade places in Dal Quor with each Turning of the Age?

I'm not sure this is accurate, but I need to do more research (or see if a "Summon Keith Baker" spell might work).

I believe that there hasn't been a direct tie to light & dark. It just happens the previous Quolri weren't as bad as the current ones. The Kalashtar want a turning, but don't know what it will bring. They just assume that it can't be as bad as what they have now. I remember Keith mentioning a lot of uncertainty from the kalashtar about it.

 

[Deadguy]

Whilst #2 would make a fine premise for the basis of a campaign (and for that matter, so would #1)...

I am not sure we can assume that this trading of places, Light for Dark, is as simple as Good versus Evil. I know that sounds a lot like option #2, but what I mean is that it would be a mistake to see this only in terms of ticking back and forth down the same path each time. These are Dreams and Nightmares; they are very different and creative within those boundaries.

Dal Quor, like all the outer planes of Eberron, is ultimately unknowable by mortals. Of course that might come as a shock to the kalashtar, as they become ever more grounded in flesh and cut off from the Dreaming.

Though thank you for raising this point - it's just given me a seriously cool idea for a twist to my own campaign involving Taratai and the isolation of the kalashtar...

 

[Aeric]

I don't actually remember ever reading anything that suggests the Dal Quor cycle is light-dark-light-dark. There is a group of kalashtar who believe that the next incarnation of Dal Quor will be one of lightness and good, but that could simply be an optimistic reaction to the current nightmarish state of the realm, hoping for a better tomorrow.

Still, there is little said in any of the books about the giant/quori war, which is nice as it allows for all kinds of fun speculation and individual DMs to create their own answers without worrying about metaplot or canon (or the obnoxious players who demand that all games follow them!). I think it would be a neat twist to say that the giants brought the quori invasion upon themselves by messing with Dal Quor; after all, the giants have been painted as reaching too high with their ambitions and ultimately getting burned as a result.

Messing with preconceived notions is always fun. IMC, the dragon civilization is every bit as ruined as Xen'drik, only nobody realizes this since no one ever goes to the interior of Argonessen. Who, then, are the agents of the Chamber going around claiming to be dragons and spouting off about the Prophesy? Good question....

Also, Kaius III really is Kaius III in my game, and not a vampire. Kaius I (the vampire) is in an iron mask in Dreadhold, awaiting the day when his desendant can break the curse which made him undead in the first place.

 

[hopeless]

Reg: Dal Quor

I've been tinkering with some ideas for a campaign in Eberron and came across something I suspect might be of interest.
The war with the Demons ended far before the Giants conflict and with those creatures bound I wondered about the binding effects that eventually created the silver flame and then wondered what if someone perfected a form of binding that stripped the foe of its power and forced it to be reborn as a normal "humanoid" or other lifeform but then I thought what would happen to all of their supernatural evil nature?

I decided that was when the evil of Dal Quor was created as their evil presence was left in the realm of nightmares and thats why it exists today, the Kalashtar quest is simply to discover the source of their problem and I can't help wondering what you'd think of Quori being Demon enhanced versions of kalashtar?

Still I can't help wondering what Dal Quor was like during the war with the demons.

My other idea is that the reason for the Giants doing what they did is because a few too many of them were actually depowered demons reborn seekinbg to recover their lost might and failing badly since even they don't know what was doen to them...

 

[hopeless]

Reg: This

I don't actually remember ever reading anything that suggests the Dal Quor cycle is light-dark-light-dark. There is a group of kalashtar who believe that the next incarnation of Dal Quor will be one of lightness and good, but that could simply be an optimistic reaction to the current nightmarish state of the realm, hoping for a better tomorrow.

Still, there is little said in any of the books about the giant/quori war, which is nice as it allows for all kinds of fun speculation and individual DMs to create their own answers without worrying about metaplot or canon (or the obnoxious players who demand that all games follow them!). I think it would be a neat twist to say that the giants brought the quori invasion upon themselves by messing with Dal Quor; after all, the giants have been painted as reaching too high with their ambitions and ultimately getting burned as a result.

Messing with preconceived notions is always fun. IMC, the dragon civilization is every bit as ruined as Xen'drik, only nobody realizes this since no one ever goes to the interior of Argonessen. Who, then, are the agents of the Chamber going around claiming to be dragons and spouting off about the Prophesy? Good question....

Also, Kaius III really is Kaius III in my game, and not a vampire. Kaius I (the vampire) is in an iron mask in Dreadhold, awaiting the day when his desendant can break the curse which made him undead in the first place.

I agree about the dragons but want to read the dragons of eberron book first before explaining my idea which involves around the idea that a few dragons actively rebelled against the demons and it was only when with the help of the coatul that the demons were losing did the rest of the dragons join in.

That idea evolved around the idea that the dragon marks were created by certain dragons to help fight the next invasion since it was clear they wouldn't be around to prevent it.
However my idea is that one dragon did plan for that eventuality and has already made a great difference saving Eberron several times in the past without being acknowledged for it since that would involve a major change in the outlook of everyone.

It also indicates the dragons are guilty of trying to turn the prophecy to what they want rather than what its supposed to be but thats a story for another thread...

 

[Victim]

I think that Dal Quor could be good(ish) and still be the aggressors. They were facing annihilation after all. And just because the giants didn't want to give up part of their territory doesn't make them evil.

That being said, the giant empires seem evil to me.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Yes, another viable idea is that the quori of the previous age were simply fleeing their inevitable destruction when the age turned . . . and the giants didn't want to play host.