A few things I really like about WFRP

[TheSword]

Again, thank you, that was awesome and very clear. Sounds like Group Advantage is good stuff.

You won’t regret it. If you’ve played the Warhammer board game Blackstone Fortress it’s got a similar vibe to the shared dice pool in that system. It encourages communication between players in combat and gets people thinking about the get their fellow members are doing.

 

[Jaeger]

WFRP4e feels like the opposite, despite being less crunchy. It’s badly organized and structured, is very fiddly in places it doesn’t need to be, advantage group or not is not well implemented, the advancement system is once again fiddly. The system is unintuitive and demands that both gm and players engage really hard with commitment with the system.

Because it is a fiddly, and poorly playtested beast.

It is no accident that the most enthusiastic about the game run almost exclusively on a VTT, automation covers a lot of sins...

What I’m saying is that a 4.5 doesn’t need to uncrunch the game much, just make it more coherent, accessible and intuitively playable.

In my opinion; The game should be redesigned around the fast SL rules from top to bottom. With the goal being to streamline down to a 2e level of overall crunch.

This can be done. And would be an easier sell to a wider audience.

It makes so much sense that I believe its eventual implementation is highly unlikely...

 

[TheSword]

Because it is a fiddly, and poorly playtested beast.

It is no accident that the most enthusiastic about the game run almost exclusively on a VTT, automation covers a lot of sins...

In my opinion; The game should be redesigned around the fast SL rules from top to bottom. With the goal being to streamline down to a 2e level of overall crunch.

This can be done. And would be an easier sell to a wider audience.

It makes so much sense that I believe its eventual implementation is highly unlikely...

I love VTT, but I’ve also played a long campaign face to face. Again with people new to the system. Lots of the folks that play VTT don’t play Foundry either so don’t have the automation that Foundry brings. I think the suggestion that I only like the system because it’s on VTT is untrue.

I also prefer the simplicity of lower the roll the better. Fast SL also isn’t faster if you can deduct one single digit number from another. Though I get that Andy Law prefers fast SL and runs that in his alternatives. I dont see it personally.

The play test was huge. There was a huge beta playtest before the final version of the core book was released and it’s been a living system since released with options responding to feedback released since. The playtest comment is weird.

 

[Jaeger]

The playtest comment is weird.

Not really considering that they released two supplements to fix core systems.

 

[TheSword]

Not really considering that they released two supplements to fix core systems.

I have more than a couple of criticisms for Cubicle 7. They can be flighty, spread themselves too thin and can take a long time to release stuff without telling us.

Them not listening to their customers and changing the rules accordingly definitely isn’t one of them. They have been extremely responsive when it comes to rules.

 

[Jaeger]

I have more than a couple of criticisms for Cubicle 7. Them not listening to their customers and changing the rules accordingly definitely isn’t one of them. They have been extremely responsive.

Not critiquing this.

In fact it is entirely to their credit that they are willing to admit when they went astray, and take steps to correct it.

But they would have had to do less of it had things been properly caught during playtesting.

I readily admit that I am absolutely being a bit salty on the issues I have with 4e:

Firstly because I was really looking forward to the game, and I legitimately like the underlying design ideas behind it.

Secondly, my tolerance for games being released with issues readily spotted on release, that should have been caught during a proper playtest is essentially zero at this point.

In C7's defence; R.TALs release of CPRed makes them look like absolute hero's by comparison.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

It is no accident that the most enthusiastic about the game run almost exclusively on a VTT, automation covers a lot of sins...

I totally agree, and me and my table only game via Foundry. But the thing is, the crunchier a system gets - and even more so for a crunchy, fiddly and quirky game like 4e - the less the players can escape still needing to read and grok massive amounts of rules and text to make informed desicions in the short and long term.

Sure, anyone with basic Foundry skills can wing it through a single combat. But campaign play in 4e is so much more than automating away quirks and crunch in combat.

(But a shoutout to MooMan, the implementation and automation of 4e in Foundry is truly excellent!)