[Eberron] Tiamat vs. the Draconic Prophesy?

[Graf]

So the MMIV (purchased on a whim but generally pleased with) has a big old chunk on Tiamat Spawn including a lot of fluff about her (and or her spawn) opposing the prophesy.

While I am not super keen on a return to colored dragons=evil the idea of a subsect of fiendish dragons allying with a demonic force to knock the prophesy out of alignment provides some interesting possibilities.
(as well as opening up potential for more epic high-level play in the setting)

It also offers some interesting possibilities (do the elves align with the "pro-prophesy" dragons; do the dragons need someone to raid vaults in Xendrick to access ancient mysteries the giants blocked them from approaching directly; to the other big, evil players like the Lords of Dust, the Dalykr and so on take advantage of the confusion?)

Of course all of this begs the question(s): since when do gods tromp around Eberron as incarnate forces? Did someone preparing the material skip the part about reading over the Eberron bible (or whatever internal docs WotC has for the setting)?
And is Tiamat really opposed to the Draconic Prophesy? Since when is she the "mother" of evil dragons in Eberron (weren't all dragons metallic and otherwise made by Siberys?)
--I know Tiamat's been in the setting since at least Magic of Eberron but she's presented as just one of 10+ deities in that book. No mention of motherhood....

I'm not opposed to the idea of dragonspawn appearing per se; just that they had to do a cut and paste of the Tiamat-attacks-the-world theme from FR & the Hand of Doom. Couldn't they have at least considered the setting up until now (i.e. spawn are appearing, but no one knows why, some dragons think its a sign of a new age in the prophesy, others that something has gone seriously wrong, etc. etc.)


Was there a specific reason WotC had to write "Tiamat's not happy with Eberron and (just like in FR) she's going to make an army out of no-where and invade!"

What's the point of making a new-different setting if you immeadiately launch just-like-the-old-worlds-world-events?

 

[Klaus]

RED HAND OF DOOOOOOMM!!!! SPOILAGE, EH?



Tiamat could just be one of the imprisoned Rajahs (who, you'll remember, ruled over the dragons in the Age of Demons).

And dragons already worship her as a goddess (hence the constellation with her name).

So you put those together and you'll get a Rajah who was worshipped by a sect of her underlings as a divine being millions of years ago, who considered her to be their "mother" (instead of literally, she could be the mother of their way of thinking -- greed, tyranny, etc). Even though she's imprisoned in the depths of Khyber (and might be released in Red Hand of DOOOOM!), she is still capable of reaching out and corrupting certain eggs to create spawn, in a very Cthulhuesque way...

 

[Henry]

Even if it turns out to be "the right hand not knowing the left", it could still be spun into a story compatible with what we know of Eberron.

(WotC needs to issue No-prizes like Marvel Comics used to! )

Perhaps that is the story given by anti-prophecy forces in Argonnessen; they who actively seek to stop the prophecy (because they have interpreted it to mean the end of dragonkind, perhaps) are the ones who created to dragonspawn to carry out Tiamat's will. After all, Tiamat is one of the dragon gods (along with Chronepsis, Io, and the rest)...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Of course all of this begs the question(s): since when do gods tromp around Eberron as incarnate forces? Did someone preparing the material skip the part about reading over the Eberron bible (or whatever internal docs WotC has for the setting)?

Too many cooks and all that.

 

[Rugger]

In my version of RHoD and Age of Worms (set in Eberron), I'm treating Tiamat much like one of the Rajahs.

Ages when the dragons were warring with the Rajahs, 6 powerful chromatic dragons defected to the side of the Rajahs, and were to be granted great power as a result. But, the Rajahs had no use for two Reds in their plan, and after a titanic battle, one of the reds, Dragotha, was sent packing. The remaining 5 were merged into the titanic form that Tiamat uses to this very day. She was eventually trapped deep in Khyber, but the fact that any dragons defected planted the seeds of doubt into the Dragons...to this very day, Chromatic's that give into their more base instincts are considered 'tainted' by Tiamat.

Tiamat has remained active from afar with her minions. The invasion in RHoD is the first move in a major power play for her...but Dragotha has a LONG memory and manages to manipulate several mortals into a position to oppose her... (after losing to the proto-Tiamat, he was lured in by Khashtakla (sp?), and began the career outlined in AoW)

-Matt

 

[Glyfair]

So the MMIV (purchased on a whim but generally pleased with) has a big old chunk on Tiamat Spawn including a lot of fluff about her (and or her spawn) opposing the prophesy.

Based on Keith's recent revelations, how can you "oppose" the prophecy? (Admittedly, his views might not be canon).

Supposedly the prophecy doesn't say "this will happen" or even "this should happen." It's more like "if this happens, then this will happen." For example, "if the Vol visits Xen'drik, then the war will restart" (probably more prophecy like in "if the missing mark should see the giant's ruins, then strife will cross the land.").

How do you "oppose" that?

 

[Deadguy]

I see what you mean. I guess in this case "oppose" means taking a contrarian position, trying to spoil the positions taken by other dragons (not that they don't do that anyway). Of course, amusingly that might mean the Spawn siding with the PCs sometimes!

 

[Vocenoctum]

--I know Tiamat's been in the setting since at least Magic of Eberron

As mentioned, Tiamat is a constellation in the ECS, so she's always been there, just undetailed.

 

[Solarious]

I like to see the Spawn as soldiers and minions of the Dragons... a race with ties all the way back to the Age of Demons.

I mean, think about it. Dragons breed slowly, take forever to grow up, while all the Rashaskas and other fiends of Khyber simply reincarnate with no loss of power in about a week or two... and they'll even retain their memory/personality/themness if they're powerful enough! And mind you, the little 'crumbs' that escaped being imprisoned in Khyber, known as the Lords of Dust, are Epic level baddies in their highest councils.

Spawn seem to be perfect footsoldiers of the dragons. More numerous, probably easier to breed, and their draconic nature point to the infancy of Draconic Epic magic, utilizing themselves as a base for their 'Origin of Species' spells. You might want to interchange a color with a metallic equivilant, or even make new ones to represent metallic spawn.

In Q'barra, I expect many of the black dragonspawn variety to be the personal servants and guards of the ancient ruins there... all of them half-fiends, of course.

 

[Graf]

Based on Keith's recent revelations, how can you "oppose" the prophecy? (Admittedly, his views might not be canon).

They aren’t recent; most people who read the Eberron boards are familiar with them.

Supposedly the prophecy doesn't say "this will happen" or even "this should happen." It's more like "if this happens, then this will happen." For example, "if the Vol visits Xen'drik, then the war will restart" (probably more prophecy like in "if the missing mark should see the giant's ruins, then strife will cross the land.").

Have you read the dragon article about the Lords of Dust (also written by KB)?
Or anything about them at all really?
Or about the Quori?

Both groups are presented as (in a vaguely fluffy sort of way) wanting to derail the prophesy –by- KB (some of the strongest arguments are non-cannon of course but your point (?) is also using his non-cannon posts on boards).
The task is Sisyphean (i.e. the Quori of the prior age’s invasion of Eberron was an attempt to stop the turning of the age, which failed) but that’s also part of the campaign setting and not something-I-just-made-up.

I understand the the-internet-fueled-glee of the snappy comeback but you seem to be a off the mark in your cunning retort.
I suggest reading his Ask Keith Baker threads more closely if you’re still not sure what I’m talking about.