Eberron ... with Grim Tales?

[HeapThaumaturgist]

So I've been thinking about Eberron alot lately. Not sure why, exactly, as I've never been a fan.

But, I think, some of the ideas behind the setting are interesting ... taking the existance of magic and running with it. But the "lower power, more prevalent" slant that's taken by the setting doesn't really hash with D&D's exponential power curve. It feels 'artificial'. The same with some of the mechanics introduced by the system ... pantheonic clerics, warforged, dragonmarks, the artificer class. To play Eberron it seems like you'd have to play with blinders on ... if everything in D&D has a place, then why haven't more intelligent people taken over all of the power structures, as opposed to the CR 10-13 leaders? If the Artificer works as written, why are there still Sorcerors? Why on earth are Warforged LA +0? How do Dragonmarked individuals make an entire living off of a 2/Day ability?

A system where concepts can play out a little more freely seems like it might better serve ... where a warrior (say Strong X) could become a king and devote himself to those pursuits (multi to Charismatic Y) without needing to be totally hobbled mechanically in the process to explain it ... where somebody could gain a small magical ability usable at-will but with a different mechanical penalty (fatigue, strength damage, etc) ... where PREVALENT magic could be mechanically instituted without Meteor Swarm and Disentegrate sitting in the wings (say Ben's upcoming Grim Tales magic expansion?) ...

Has anybody thought of doing this? I pitched it to a few people around here who would love to give it a run, but I'm moving off in two weeks. Just a mental exercise, I suppose. It just feels to me like Eberron was a cool homebrew that has suffered the same problems as many other homebrews in its time ... D&D's core assumptions don't allow for a whole lot of variance. The Artificer, for instance, is a very interesting CONCEPT ... but the execution breaks the whole darn magic system up and down the block.

For me it already feels like it's halfway there. The approach they took with NPCs feels like they'd have been better built with a d20Modern/GT style system ... the approach to magic makes Vancian magic seem like a kludge (the Artificer, for instance, gets to cast any of his spells whenever he wants, to the extent of his slots, and is balanced by another mechanic ... time ... which is to say they wanted to escape the Vancian system more than any of the other core classes).

Of course there's a whole lot about Eberron that I just don't LIKE ... Voodoo Elves and dragon-riding halflings, for instance. But that's just me.

--fje

 

[Henry]

Eberron's setting, has a lot to offer, and not to sound like a rabid fan, the D&D system does work well with it, based on the explanations given for most of your questions (both metagamed expalanations as well as in-world ones.)

That said, if I wanted to convert to GT, I would keep the dragonmarks as-is, with a strict x/day structure, with no fatigue or ability damage costs, because not only are they uncommon, they're not so powerful as to be abuseable.

Since magic is pretty limited to 6th level spells and below, and most NPCs are NPC-classed instead of PC-classed, this would do well in Eberron, and in fact GT would solve one of the most problematic things about Eberron: Many players of the setting believe that only low-level play works well in the setting, but with the finer gradation of powers given to GT characters, you can push play easily into the teens and still keep the pulp-adventure feel that Eberron is known for.

I would probably eliminate Artificers totally, and fold magic item creation in A la Black Company rules, because there is a definitely need for magical trinkets and static effects in Eberron to keep the pulpy feel; I can't imagine the hard-boiled detective without his Flashlight and Pistol, and I can't imagine the House Medani inquisitor without his Eternal Lamp and Magic wand. Just the idea of an MDT in the low teens will drasticaly change the nature of the world.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Eberron's setting, has a lot to offer, and not to sound like a rabid fan, the D&D system does work well with it, based on the explanations given for most of your questions (both metagamed expalanations as well as in-world ones.)

I don't know if it is an experience of having studied the setting very intensely in a short period of time to enter the fiction contest, but I really like Eberron. Lots of pulpy plot opportunities.

That said, if I wanted to convert to GT, I would keep the dragonmarks as-is, with a strict x/day structure, with no fatigue or ability damage costs, because not only are they uncommon, they're not so powerful as to be abuseable.

You could also switch it to an action point cost, which would address HT's other complaint about dragonmarks (being too limited to really make a living).

Since magic is pretty limited to 6th level spells and below, and most NPCs are NPC-classed instead of PC-classed, this would do well in Eberron, and in fact GT would solve one of the most problematic things about Eberron: Many players of the setting believe that only low-level play works well in the setting, but with the finer gradation of powers given to GT characters, you can push play easily into the teens and still keep the pulp-adventure feel that Eberron is known for.

Agreed.

EDIT: You could also convert quite a few of the low-level magic conveniences to bona fide technological achievements without really disturbing anything. There's no reason that glow-globes can't be gaslight and the rail system steam-powered (or, hey, even mag-lev, if you're up for it).

Just the idea of an MDT in the low teens will drasticaly change the nature of the world.

Ah. Exactly why I agreed with the prior comment.

 

[Desdichado]

Personally, I think the idea is kinda strange. I disagree with your assessment of the consistency of Eberron--I think Eberron more than any other D&D campaign setting I've ever seen works within the structures of the D&D rules. Changing the ruleset doesn't make much sense to me, unless you just really like the setting and not the rules, but if so, you're kinda on your own there.

If there are just some aspects of Eberron that you like, on the other hand, and several others that you do not, just borrow the aspects of Eberron that you do like into your GT homebrew.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Well, I already have a GT homebrew that has some things in common with Eberron, which may be why I have some fondness for aspects of the setting. Airships, magical tradegoods and conveniences. But other than that very different.

It's not that I dislike the D&D mechanics ... my other regular game is D&D. I'm actually quite fond of the game in general, but it feels like there's a bit of a disconnect between what the SETTING wants to do and what the SYSTEM does.

GT has all of the mechanics of D&D ... spells (the same spells), etc. It even has an (I think stronger) action point system. Wands, staves, they all work the same.

I'm intrigued.

--fje

 

[ragboy]

I've played only a few games of Eberron, but, like Wulf, I dug pretty deep into the main rulebook for the the Big Fiction Con...uh...contest. I think Heap has a point that GT and Eberron are born of the same mother. So, there are definite ways to do things between the two systems that could give that Grim Tales feel, and give better explanation on the prevalence of low-level magic conveniences, but not the crazy high-powered Forgotten Realms style mages. I slant toward Wulf's suggestion of making these conveniences even more plausible by making them mechanical, or some magic/mechanical hybrid. And giving the Artificer the once over with some mechanical skills and powers.

And spell burn could explain the lack of high-level magicks (though I think the Last War and the various wars before that do a fine job of explaining it).

Overall, though, I think I agree with Joshua that within the system (if you disregard 30 years of D&D backwash) everything just sort of fits like it should. I can't explain why that is, but I haven't been bothered by anything (even the magic trains and metal men and magic tattoos and psionics integrated but not overpowering, etc, etc.) I may ID some weirdness once I've played and DM'ed Eberron more, but so far, I'm happy enough to have bought all the Eberron texts (which is a big step for me).

 

[fuindordm]

I don't think the lack of high-leel NPCs is a problem in Eberron or inconsistent with the D&D rules. I agree completely with Keith Baker that NPCS should not advance in the same way as PCs... PCs are very unusual in that they are always challenging themselves, striving to get better and better at what they do. Most people, however, challenge themselves until they get good enough at something to make a decent living, and then slack off, start families, or take up hobbies, challenging themselves in ways that grant no game befefit whatsoever.

A reworked, more mechanical artificer would go well with GT, I think--especially if you restrict the spells that they can implement into the items they create. Maybe make them do research like a wizard to add new 'virtual spells' to their book for the purposes of item creation.

As for GT PCs in Eberron, I think that would go pretty well with the setting too. The fact that they have a defense bonus rather than depending so much on stacking AC bonuses from several kinds of magic items pleases me, as does the overall lower saving throws and attack bonuses. Yeah, it could definitely work.

Ben

 

[Turanil]

I too, think that Eberron, as a setting, doesn't work very well with pure D&D. So, I think Grim Tales plus only the new Eberron races (no elves, dwarves, etc.; only warforged, etc.) would improve Eberron, in emphasizing its pulp/steampunk/whatever aspect. However, I would slightly tweak the magic (maybe using the mage class from FX d20 modern) and turning the Artificer into a set of talents for Smart or Dedicated heroes.

As for GT PCs in Eberron, I think that would go pretty well with the setting too. The fact that they have a defense bonus rather than depending so much on stacking AC bonuses from several kinds of magic items pleases me, as does the overall lower saving throws and attack bonuses. Yeah, it could definitely work.

Hey Ben, when is the current campaign reworked with GT??

 

[Henry]

...So, I think Grim Tales plus only the new Eberron races (no elves, dwarves, etc.; only warforged, etc.) would improve Eberron, in emphasizing its pulp/steampunk/whatever aspect.

Now THERE's a small, quick idea with big flavor!

Humans, Shifters, Kalashtar, and Warforged; give the Dragonmarks just to these four races instead of the regulars; Shifters could have Handling and Shadows; Kalashtar could have Healing and Hospitality; Warforged could have Warding and Sentinel; and humans get everything else.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

If I was to use action points to power dragonmarks, I'd probably switch to a WFRPv2 Fate points/Fortune points, where you have a handful of "Get out of death free" points, non-rechargable, and an equal number of weaker "action points" that recharge every day.

In my current siblings campaign, we're doing a very Wild West-style Eberron, using the massive damage threshold. I like it