Ecology of the Dragonborn up

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I really don't understand why flying has become such a gamebreaker.

I mean, really, why? If you have a fairly common race that has the ability to fly, would not every other race or culture familiar with them not have some way of countering that? And how advantageous is flying going to be in an enclosed "dungeon" setting?

Fly is powerful because you can avoid most terrain, even inside a dungeon.
Outside of dungeons, it allows you to avoid enemy attacks completely.

If you just introduce counter-measures to fly, why bother with it in the first place? Wouldn't it be nice that, around the time you actually can fly, you can also rely on its usefulness and not have it negated all the time? And wouldn't also be nice to not always have to provide for counter-measures?

 

[Klaus]

Fly is powerful because you can avoid most terrain, even inside a dungeon.
Outside of dungeons, it allows you to avoid enemy attacks completely.

If you just introduce counter-measures to fly, why bother with it in the first place? Wouldn't it be nice that, around the time you actually can fly, you can also rely on its usefulness and not have it negated all the time? And wouldn't also be nice to not always have to provide for counter-measures?

Bypass terrain: by the time you reach mid-Paragon and up, mundane terrain isn't much of a concern. And 4e added a mechanic for air currents, which slide you. For overland travel, a 5-minute flight followed by a 5-minute rest ammounts to a x1/2 multiplier to the distance travelled, which is worse than most terrains available.

Bypass encounters: unless you have an entire party of flyers, it's no good. One PC may bypass the encounter, but what about the rest of them?

Dungeon: Unless the creature has [fly (hover)], it must devote a move action to remain aloft, and can't take Opportunity or Immediate actions. If the creature has [flight (clumsy)], it suffers an additional -2 to attacks and defenses while flying. This is the case of the dragonborn champion in the MM.

Not only do wizards get Fly at level 16, githianky get Telekinetic Leap (encounter power, fly speed for 1 round, must end movement grounded) from the get-go.

 

[greatamericanfolkher]

No wings, no paragon paths, no racial magic items. In my opinion, when compared to the warforged article, this article is sub par.

 

[mudbunny]

I wish I could see this article...for some reason the site is insisting that I don't exist now and therefore can't log in.

I'm having the same problem, as of yesterday. Never had trouble logging in before.

WotC staff is working on figuring out why. There is a thread on the WotC forums here where one of the staff members (GmrGrl) has been asking for some info via PMs.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Bypass terrain: by the time you reach mid-Paragon and up, mundane terrain isn't much of a concern.

I disagree. A Paragon or Epic level character might have a few more tricks up his sleeve to "handle" terrain (especially the wizard), but on a general basis, terrain remains relevant.

And 4e added a mechanic for air currents, which slide you. For overland travel, a 5-minute flight followed by a 5-minute rest ammounts to a x1/2 multiplier to the distance travelled, which is worse than most terrains available.

Bypass encounters: unless you have an entire party of flyers, it's no good. One PC may bypass the encounter, but what about the rest of them?

Dungeon: Unless the creature has [fly (hover)], it must devote a move action to remain aloft, and can't take Opportunity or Immediate actions. If the creature has [flight (clumsy)], it suffers an additional -2 to attacks and defenses while flying. This is the case of the dragonborn champion in the MM.

Not only do wizards get Fly at level 16, githianky get Telekinetic Leap (encounter power, fly speed for 1 round, must end movement grounded) from the get-go.

Well, I understood the original post more generally - why if flying bad (or rather: considered powerful).

If used as a limited resource, it is a tactical option and must be used with care. That's why it is okay to allow it at higher levels. I also wouldn't mind a Epic Dragonborn being flying at will (albeit clumsy).

But it's important to understand why flight is a powerful ability - and why it always has been. (Even regardless of game system - Invisible flying mages exist outside of D&D, too.)

 

[heirodule]

And don't forget the "treme" part. Very important.

Yay wikipedia.

So now, although giving them breasts makes them more poular with human players who can relate to them, we have to tell players that they defecate and urinate out the same opening they reproduce from.

Alien race FTW!

 

[Drkfathr1]

Fly is powerful because you can avoid most terrain, even inside a dungeon.
Outside of dungeons, it allows you to avoid enemy attacks completely.

If you just introduce counter-measures to fly, why bother with it in the first place? Wouldn't it be nice that, around the time you actually can fly, you can also rely on its usefulness and not have it negated all the time? And wouldn't also be nice to not always have to provide for counter-measures?

As has been said by another poster, Avoiding terrain inside a dungeon is only for that one character. What about the Elf ability that allows them to move through difficult terrain? What about teleporting?

A flyer can avoid enemy attacks outside only if said enemies have no ranged weapons. Or they can just fly away, but that's no different than just fleeing. And once again, that's one character, leaving the rest of the party to fend for themselves.

I don't really consider crossbows, long bows, short bows, javelins, long spears, and nets to be such devestating counter-measures that a flyer would never be able to use the ability, but it would certainly BALANCE it. That has nothing to do with "negating" the ability. It's really not that complex.

 

[fba827]

I'm having the same problem, as of yesterday. Never had trouble logging in before.

I had the exact same problem (I used to log in just fine until two days ago). I went to the forgot password link (next to the login box) and that took me to a _new_ gleemax site that made me re-merge my old account to whatever new database they are using (i forgot the term they used; but one optio nwas the plain simple reset password and the other option was one of those "enter your password and we'll 'fix' your account to work on our new system" things...

 

[Wolfspider]

Hmm. So does that mean by extension that dragons, which are related to the dragonborn, are also monotremes?

 

[mlund]

Except neither of the two earth dwelling monotremes have teats (or boobs) and instead produce milk-patches

but it does confirm what I've always said - dragons comefrom a transitional Pelycosaur-Therapsid group and Dragonborn are clearly therapsids (as are Platypus)

Yeah, there's nothing quite as sad as poorly cobbled rationalizations to try and justify what is nothing more than anthropomorphism and shoddy art work.

As noted, monotremes don't come with teats, and creatures whose young can walk within hours and thus don't need to be carried about for years at a time by nursing mothers don't have their mammary glands 4+ feet off the ground.

But furries with cow-udders on their stomachs don't sell as well as furries with human-style "boobs." They'd be even far less marketable-looking with the application of the very biology they try to use to excuse "putting jugs on them," than if they just gave up on trying to stick breasts on every female in the PHB. Would it have been so hard to just pay extra attention to the faces, eyes, and maybe attach some differentiating "plumage" type effects? I mean, they gave them a hair-substitute already.

- Marty Lund