Ecology of the Dragonborn up

I'm a little bored with the article. "Blah blah blah empire blah blah blah boobs blah blah blah nobility blah."

I'll accept that's probably because the dragonborn are somehow inherently boring to me, though, rather than due to any flaw with the article.

Where's the juicy conflict and delicious problems facing the dragonborn? Nowhere, really. :(

That's actually a far more interesting criticisimn. I think it was Jürgen Huberts blog on Urbis where I noticed that a lot of races seemed to have a trait that caused that could lead them in conflict with others. (I think Dragonborn was one of them.) I liked that.

That's definitely something that is missing here. It might be intentional - the conflict is not to be assumed between races, but between evil and good. But that might still be a flawed goal.
 

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MR said:
That's definitely something that is missing here. It might be intentional - the conflict is not to be assumed between races, but between evil and good. But that might still be a flawed goal.

Dude, yes.

The essence of storytelling is drama, the essence of drama is conflict. These dragonborn lack conflict, and so don't have drama, and so don't make a good story (and so, for me, don't make a very good D&D game).

I wouldn't even mind if they were given some sort of conflict between themselves, or between them and certain dragons, or between them and some monster-race.

Think of how interesting it could be if the Githyanki, with their red dragon pact and their gaudy militarism and violence, were introduced as a counterpoint to the dragonborn's nobility and pride.

Or of the awesomeness of dragonborn who were throwing off the shackles of slavery to the dragons themselves (though this gives you a bit of the "single schtick" problem, but meh).

Or of a dragonborn cult of bane lurking at the heart of the fall of Arkhosia.

As written, it would seem like dragonborn and tieflings have a built-in reason to oppose each other, what with conflicting empires and one being noble warriors and the other being insidious warlocks and the like.

I dunno, that's mostly ranting, I'm just BORED by the article. Maybe a fun read for someone who has a real passionate nerd love for the scalemonsters, but for someone who's basically apathetic like me, it just INCREASES my apathy. Before I was all "Shrug." Now I'm all "Meh. Hardcore Meh."
 

I dunno, that's mostly ranting, I'm just BORED by the article. Maybe a fun read for someone who has a real passionate nerd love for the scalemonsters, but for someone who's basically apathetic like me, it just INCREASES my apathy. Before I was all "Shrug." Now I'm all "Meh. Hardcore Meh."
I had to laugh out reading this. ;) (To avoid just saying "LOL") :)
 

haven't seen it yet

Couldn't get in (tried the other suggested ways). The only way I got to see the Ashardalon article was through the direct link provided.

Any chance of a direct link to the Dragonborn one?
 

Found a problem...

Bunch of marginal to flat out inappropriate stuff deleted by Moderator.

The spirit of the game is to kill dragons, not be them. I mean, seriously folks, is this really where we want our beloved geek pasttime to go? Dungeons and Dragons: The Movie, Directed by Micheal Bay?

/Not a troll. I care a lot about this because I mainly play in the organized campaigns and have to swallow Wizards' system/fluff whole.
 
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The spirit of the game is to kill dragons, not be them.

The spirit of the game is whatever we wish. The spirit of my game is FUN. If you're having fun, who is anyone else to tell you you're "doing it wrong?" You have that authority?

I mean, seriously folks, is this really where we want our beloved geek pasttime to go?

I'm wholeheartedly enjoying it so far.

Dungeons and Dragons: The Movie, Directed by Micheal Bay?

Dragonborns being added to D&D somehow makes it more like a Micheal Bay movie? I guess, if you picture the dragonborn's fight scenes in jerky, out-of-focus snippets. When I picture dragonborn I get visions of Braveheart, Predator, Conan, The 13th Warrior... perhaps they're shallow to you but it seems you made your mind up long before trying to imagine a brave, heroic dragonborn paladin (for example).

/Not a troll.

Of course. You're just stating your opinion.

I care a lot about this because I mainly play in the organized campaigns and have to swallow Wizards' system/fluff whole.

Dang, so you're sitting outside with some other players, the baby, and the bathwater? I figure your time would be better spent with a system you enjoy.
 
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Rebuttal

From a real-world standpoint, it's true.

But by this hard-core biology there can be no humanoid race other than humans and anything that is clearly a primate. And it couldn't be over a certain height and keep a very human appearance (bone and muscle structure). So no lizardfolk, centaurs, kobolds, giants, etc..

And then the most agressive, prolific, and adaptable race would spread so fast and kill off most of the other erect primates.

I agree for the most part with your assesment—the threshold dividing the conditionally believable fluff from the outright cheesy can vary for each individual and subject, but it does exist, and Wizards has arguably crossed it with the Dragonborn.

Boobs are generally great on the mammalian humanoids. (I Don't think many will argue with that.) However, the placement of breasts on a creature that has no obvious evolutionary purpose for them taxes the suspension of disbelief, which in many cases can be critical to enjoying a fantasy/sci-fi experience. Now, I understand that an argument can be made to take the fluff at face value and say that the race sprung from the blood of the dying Dragon god Io, but if you are going to take that stance, then you have to admit that Dragon's aren't mammalian and thus not monotremes,and they darn well don't have boobs. Personally, I think it is unlikely that any dragon or (especially) dragon-god would have any use for or want to have anything to do with breasts. If I were a dying dragon god, my last act as a celestial being wouldn't be to make my begotten-not-made descendents top-heavy with useless fleshbags.

Now, take as an example the 3e Half-Dragons. This race had a logical explanation for the boobage. As half-human (or half-whatever else,) the breasts were assumed to come from the non-draconic side of the character's ancestral tree. This was a much easier pill to swallow. Likewise, the fluff explanation for the intermingling of dragon blood with the general population of DnD races was not only believeable, but Awesome. It added more reasons for Dragons to become involved with the affairs of the other races and contributed to the Dragon's characterization as an NPC character archetype in the campaign. It also hardly even stretched the suspension of disbelief—If I were cooped up in a lair for centuries without companionship, I'd be horny as :):):):).

The fact that Wizards felt it necessary to justify their pro-furry pandering with this ill-conceived monotreme retcon speaks to the fact that
dragonboobs just dont wash with the geek community. Wizards' decision to can a rich and perfectly workable backstory for the Half-Dragon is emblematic of everything else that is wrong with 4e: they overreached and threw out much of what worked about 3e and gave that edition its characteristic flavor. And if they are going to try and sell me a subscription to the fluff through Dragon? That's outrageous. Anyone not subscribing to DDI will automatically be getting an impoverished gaming experience, regardless of the quality of the fluff they release in the future


Also I think that I would be negligent in my duties if I did not reiterate that we are not furries:

http://hackvan.com/pub/stig/funny/geek/the-geek-hierarchy/the-geek-hierarchy-chart-2.0-abridged.gif

The spirit of the game is whatever we wish. The spirit of my game is FUN. If you're having fun, who is anyone else to tell you you're "doing it wrong?" You have that authority?

The spirit of the game is whatever my DM wishes. If my DM decides that Orcs or Tieflings came from the planet Xanadu in fleets of mighty spaceships made of cheese, as the player I'd be forced to eat :):):):) and like it. Only I wouldn't, and I'd be really unhappy because that kind of tampering with community-established standards for a fantasy realm disrupts the suspension of disbelief requisite to having a good time adventuring through fantasy realms. In any case, it is overreaching on the part of the DM. As an RPGA member, my DM is Wizards. He can be a real dick.

Dragonborns being added to D&D somehow makes it more like a Micheal Bay movie? I guess, if you picture the dragonborn's fight scenes in jerky, out-of-focus snippets. When I picture dragonborn I get visions of Braveheart, Predator, Conan, The 13th Warrior... perhaps they're shallow to you but it seems you made your mind up long before trying to imagine a brave, heroic dragonborn paladin (for example).

GOD. Transformers was the WORST MOVIE EVER.

On-topic though, I was referring more to the over-the-top style of the new fluff that wizards is pushing on us. Others have likened it to a WoWification of DnD. I know that i am not the only one who prefers the intricate fluff of the default 3e setting as opposed to the broad and garish cartoon strokes that are taking place now with 4e. I mean, if I wanted cartoon action hero, i would play in the Eberron campaign. Wasn't that why they made the Ebberon setting? There had to be some niche reason for it.



Dang, so you're sitting outside with some other players, the baby, and the bathwater? I figure your time would be better spent with a system you enjoy.

I would, but the RPGA is strictly Wizards stuff, and the announcement of 4e was the death knell of Living Greyhawk. They're pulling the rug out from under us and forced early retirment for all our 3e characters. (I JUST got access to the Drunken Master prestige class too. *Grumble*)

As it stands, I don't have a schedule that permits weekly get-togethers with a DM and a group of friends. Personally, I like to game as god intended: in sleepless, uninterrupted 72 hour caffeine-fueled stretches at cons with a bunch of other likeminded gamers. For me that means I'm stuck with 4th Edition, but I am not going to be silent about it.

I imagine that a bunch of LG fans are as angry about 4e as I, but I sincerely hope that they don't stop coming to cons, because I still want to play.
 
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