D&D 4E Ed Greenwood on 4e F Realms

[GVDammerung]

Link - http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=207436

Seems to me like "damning with faint praise."

Thoughts?

 

[Neil Bishop]

Thoughts?

Um, how would you feel if you made a good faith sale of your campaign setting at a very low price to a company that then proceeded to use a bizarre love triangle to change a pantheon of deities that you crafted reasonably carefully?

I understand that FR needs to change, and especially needs a strategy that helps acquire new fans, but this just seems trite and silly.

 

[Moonshade]

More of his 4E comments here, third post on the page. I don't like the changes I've heard about but I do like Greenwood's responses. He seems to respect the opinions of those fans who are unhappy with the changes and isn't afraid to note that he himself is not happy with everything ("Those don’t sound like MY gods"), but he's still asking people to give 4E FR a chance and see if it can become something good.

 

[Najo]

I would describe the changes as more this:

* They are adding conflict and danger in more places through out the world.
* They are creatig more grey areas and drama amongst the pantheon, giving it more campaign possibilities
* They are creating places with interesting events, such as the rivalry and break off group in Thay, the fall of the silver marches and places within the dalelands etc.., the rise of the Empire of Nethril <sp>,
* They are advance the storyline 100 years, allowing people to continue playing in the realms as it is and enjoy their current campaigns. Then if they want to change it, groups can move forward with the timeline. Look how much a country or our world itself in the real world can change in 100 years.
* Drizzt and Elminster are still around, but most of the other characters that were mortal are no dead.

Overall, WOTC is setting the Realms up to appeal to a broader audience and give new players a chance to hop in without feeling over whelmed by all of the materials and history of the realms. They are keeping the heart of the setting and two of its most popular characters.

Personally, I think it is brilliant. Customers and friends I have told are excited about it. Many of the realm haters are going "really?" that sounds awesome.

I think the only people who won't like what they do are the ones who have to have the realms remain unchange and stagnent, because they like its familiarity. But unchanged is bad too. Good changes made by people who understand the setting and can do creative things with it are exciting. Lets give WOTC a chance here. All of the 3.0 and 3.5 materials were good. They've treated the realms very well so far, why would they want to throw all of that away?

 

[freyar]

Well, I think the issue is not that the current Realms fans don't want any change but that they want evolution, a chance to play through the changes, etc. Frankly, I think that they are trying to "simplify" the Realms and, yes, like you said, make it appeal to people who hate it for one reason or another. But with this major of a change all at once, I have to worry that they won't maintain the feel of the setting.

On topic, I think Ed Greenwood's response is the most reassuring thing I have read about FR in 4e.

 

[Moonshade]

* They are advance the storyline 100 years, allowing people to continue playing in the realms as it is and enjoy their current campaigns. Then if they want to change it, groups can move forward with the timeline. Look how much a country or our world itself in the real world can change in 100 years.

I don't think this has been confirmed. We just know that the prologue of the new Drizzt book is set 100 years in the future, but that doesn't necessarily mean the FRCS will be.

They are keeping the heart of the setting and two of its most popular characters.

IMO, we'll probably have to wait a little longer to see whether the heart of the Realms (in my definition: its cosmopolitan nature, numerous countries with different cultures and various scheming power groups) is going to be kept. But as you said, they are keeping the two characters that symbolise everything that is wrong about FR to many people.

I think the only people who won't like what they do are the ones who have to have the realms remain unchange and stagnent, because they like its familiarity.

I don't expect the Realms to be stagnant. I just don't want Mad Max.

 

[GVDammerung]

Overall, WOTC is setting the Realms up to appeal to a broader audience and give new players a chance to hop in without feeling over whelmed by all of the materials and history of the realms. They are keeping the heart of the setting and two of its most popular characters.

While I have run multiple campaigns set there, the Realms has never been my primary setting. While in no way meaning to belittle or dismiss those FR fans experiencing misgivings over what appears to be the new shape of the Realms, as a more casual Realms gamer, I find the changes intriguing.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I don't expect the Realms to be stagnant. I just don't want Mad Max.

Waterdeep.

TWO MAN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVE!

 

[The Little Raven]

Um, how would you feel if you made a good faith sale of your campaign setting at a very low price to a company that then proceeded to use a bizarre love triangle to change a pantheon of deities that you crafted reasonably carefully?

Yes, because simply lifting Tyr and Heimdall from the Norse pantheon and shoving it into the setting, with a half-assed effort at only renaming Heimdall, is the height of crafting something with reasonable care. It's about damned time they acted like the deities they were before they were ripped off.

I understand that FR needs to change, and especially needs a strategy that helps acquire new fans, but this just seems trite and silly.

Trite and silly is how you should be describing the D&D depiction of deities to date, since they're overwhelmingly one-dimensional caricatures of a concept, like Law or Magic or Sandwiches. Love triangles, murders, betrayals, tragedy... that's all part and parcel for the majority of real-world deities (especially ones from polytheistic religions/mythology, like the Greeks and the Norse).

 

[Wormwood]

Waterdeep.

TWO MAN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVE!

"Who runs Under-Town?"

"Halaster Blaster runs Under-Town!"