Edition Bias and 4e Sales Perception

[Treebore]

Is the "1 million 3E PHB's sold in the first year" thing an actual quote from somewhere? I hadn't heard it before.

I'm not particularly convinced that first year PHB sales are a completely reliable indicator of successful conversion, either. I know lots of people who own 4E PHBs who bought them, read them, and are unlikely to ever give WotC another dollar of their money. (I've also known a fair share of people who bought 3E PHBs, read them, and never bought another 3E product.)

And Pathfinder isn't a perfect substitute for our hypothetical alter-4E for a number of reasons. Off the top of my head:

(1) The lack of the trademark. The D&D trademark is just flat-out valuable. Leader of the pack and all that. If you had taken 3E and published it as Awesome Fantasy Roleplaying in 2000 while WotC continued producing AD&D, AD&D would not have noticed the flea biting its ass.

(2) The religious fervor of the 3E vs. 4E in many circles, leading to meaningful "geek tribalism". Pathfinder is getting criticized by lots of 3E fans for not being a reprinting of the 3.5 ruleset in a way that probably would not be true if it was what WotC had published as 4th Edition. Speaking in generalities, 4th Edition has made 3E Loyalists more suspicious of change and made 4E Loyalists more critical of grognard luddism.

(3) The lack of D&D support material not accessible through the OGL. The WotC-owned campaign settings are one obvious example.

Ryan Dancey said that the PHB sold 300,000 copies in 30 days, then I read a news article that seemed to be quoting/copying a WOTC news release stating that the 3E PH, and only the PH, had sold over a million copies in its first year, and the news article was published in December of 2001.

 

[Jack99]

Oh, there are ways to know. It would require WOTC giving us a firmer number than "hundreds of thousands of core books sold", better numbers than "Over 1 million 3E PHB's sold in the first year" and solid sales numbers for Paizo's Pathfinder Beta book.

We still wouldn't get exact numbers, but we would get a pretty clear picture/indication.

Paizo had 50k downloads of their beta. If they sell half that, they will be lucky.

 

[Maggan]

Paizo had 50k downloads of their beta. If they sell half that, they will be lucky.

If I had 50k downloads, and managed to convert that to 25k in sales, I would not be happy.

I would be stunned and ecstatic, and probably living in another reality.

/M

 

[Hussar]

Ryan Dancey said that the PHB sold 300,000 copies in 30 days, then I read a news article that seemed to be quoting/copying a WOTC news release stating that the 3E PH, and only the PH, had sold over a million copies in its first year, and the news article was published in December of 2001.

Treebore, I believe you are misrembering.

According to this ICv2 news release the combined sales of all 3e core rulebooks hit 1 million in early 2002, about 18 months or so after the August 2000 release of the game.

 

[Treebore]

Treebore, I believe you are misrembering.

According to this ICv2 news release the combined sales of all 3e core rulebooks hit 1 million in early 2002, about 18 months or so after the August 2000 release of the game.

Yeah, I may be misremembering, or the article I read dated about a month earlier just mis stated the info and I didn't look at the WOTC insert closely enough to notice the difference in wording. Meaning 3 core books versus just the PHB. Since Ryan claimed 300,000 PHB sales in the first month hitting a million in a year didn't seem off to me.

 

[Creamsteak]

I expect sales are doing relatively well even with the amount of spite a vocal minority (though not necessarily a small minority) have.

I'm very neutral on the game though. I have a player's handbook and nothing more. I think that it does some things better and some things worse than prior editions and other games I enjoy. I think that it's really good at what it wants to be good at, but gives up on some of the things that I really enjoy.

 

[Jack99]

If I had 50k downloads, and managed to convert that to 25k in sales, I would not be happy.

I would be stunned and ecstatic, and probably living in another reality.

/M

Yeah, I was trying to be really optimistic for them

 

[Treebore]

Yeah, I was trying to be really optimistic for them

Their PAthfinder Beta print book completely sold out at GenCon and the European Convention they were sent to, so the Beta sold thousands of copies. Not sure how many they printed. If I had to guess I would guess 5,000, but I never caught Paizo giving an exact number of Beta's printed. So they may very well sell 25,000 copies of their final PF.


For the record, I know many people here think I hate 4E and WOTC, well I don't. I distrust WOTC as a company, and 4E is not my game of choice. I did play 4E for 2 months, weekly, to try it out. It was fun, but not nearly as fun as C&C is for me. I played the Female Drow Avenger at the last WW Game Day, I own a 4E PH and Starter set.

I simply do not like 4E enough to have it be my main game, or one that I prefer to play in any way. I will play it though, if nothing I prefer is available.

I look at this as being like food and drink preferences. I may like how 4E tastes, but there are tastes I will choose over 4E whenever those tastes I prefer are available.

For example, I can drink Coke, but if you put a Pepsi next to it I'll drink the Pepsi every time.

So bottom line is I want WOTC and 4E to succeed, because I am smart enough to realize their success feeds the health of the whole hobby. So when I call them on things they say or do, it isn't because I want them to fail, but to realize they are making mistakes and to be smart enough to correct those mistakes and to become a better company.

To me, not saying anything would be like watching a friend destroy his own life with bad choices, and saying nothing to try and help him get his life back on track. I wouldn't fail my friends like that, and I won't fail companies I want to succeed like that. If I didn't care, or actually hated them, I would keep my mouth shut and allow them to self destruct.

 

[Mistwell]

Where's the option for "Neither know nor care how sales of 4e are going"?

It's in the thread title...where you chose the option to click on the thread that was not about what you wanted to talk about, and where you chose to post about that topic.

Why is this in any way critical or relevant to enjoying the game?

It's not. This is not a forum where you only post about stuff that helps you enjoy the game.

Not trying to threadcrap I just really don't understand how the games sales affects ones enjoyment of same. Oh wait, that would be the ticky box marked "curry." (Yum Curry!)

If you say you were not trying to threadcrap, I will believe you. However, that still begs the question as to what you point might have been.

 

[Mistwell]

Relatively good compared to what?

And taking what into account?

And to achieve what goals?

It's a poll. You decide how to interpret the question, and how to answer. So it is relative to whatever you think is relevant to the question, with whatever goals you think are appropriate.

Think of it like a game of Apples to Apples, and you're reading the green card.

Sorry about the long post, but this subject generally irks me because it's about edition wars axe-grinding on both sides (4e ROCKS SALES, EVERYONE LOVES IT LIKE I DO!/4e SUCKS SALES, EVERYONE HATES IT LIKE I DO), and people loose sight of the big picture because they're too busy wailing on each other for not liking someone else's particular way of dressing up like an Elf on Saturday afternoons.

Perhaps you and I are alike, and are attracted to threads that discuss subjects that irk us?