Effective ways to capture PC's without magic?

[Oryan77]

It doesn't mean I enjoy having my PC captured

No one enjoys having their PC captured at that moment; that's nothing new. So there's no need to question my capabilities as a DM. It's when you think back on that time you were captured and escaped that makes for good stories/memories. DM trust does have something to do with it. If you think you're DM is doing it just to screw you over & be railroady, then you don't put much trust in him as a DM. If you think the DM is doing it to add danger, challenge, & opportunities for more fun, then you trust your DM is being fair with the encounter.

Gamers love to let others know how much better they are at playing D&D. I've dealt with enough gamers to know that their intentions when pointing out a possible flaw are more to say "you're a dummy" than to actually be helpful. I saw people hinting about players getting upset which is why I wrote the last comment in my post #17, basically saying I'm aware of the railroading feel they may get. So when you still took the initiative to start pointing out my possible DM'ing flaws rather than give advice on how to capture them...I didn't see it as being constructive to my original question.

Anyway, sorry if I'm coming off as a prick (I have no hard feelings towards you in any way), but dealing with stuff like that from gamers just gets very annoying when you expected it and tried to avoid it.

 

[Shadeus]

Let me jump in here as well. Maybe grappling might be a good choice. Maybe a giant octopus or something goes in and grapples a few of them. Grapple checks are fairly nasty and if you aren't prepared to deal with them, you are pretty much stuck.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

No one enjoys having their PC captured at that moment; that's nothing new. So there's no need to question my capabilities as a DM.

You have obviously ascribed motives to my comments beyond what I put in them. They were originally a friendly warning between DMs. I consider myself a competent DM, but I still make missteps every so often. I certainly wouldn't take offense if I posted about an intended story arc, and another DM said, "sounds interesting, but be careful, I've had a lot of players who didn't have fun when I tried that." Apparently you do.

It's when you think back on that time you were captured and escaped that makes for good stories/memories.

I understand your point of view. Apparently you don't understand mine, which is to say that some players (such as myself) do not have fond memories of the plotline. This has nothing to do with the DM trying to screw the players. The DM could have the best of intentions. But not all players will look back fondly on such an event. In any case, I am letting the subject drop. I hope your players have a blast with your new plotline.

DM trust does have something to do with it. If you think you're DM is doing it just to screw you over & be railroady, then you don't put much trust in him as a DM. If you think the DM is doing it to add danger, challenge, & opportunities for more fun, then you trust your DM is being fair with the encounter.

Not at all. I trust my DM to be fair with encounters. I trust him to try and provide a fun time for all. But that doesn't mean I'd enjoy a "capture the PCs" story arc. Motivation is irrelevant. The plotline itself is not fun for me.

Gamers love to let others know how much better they are at playing D&D. I've dealt with enough gamers to know that their intentions when pointing out a possible flaw are more to say "you're a dummy" than to actually be helpful.

I can assure you that I was not satisfying some need to feel superior by my comments in this thread. I find the accusation somewhat insulting, but I certainly don't intend to get into a flamewar over it. Suffice it to say, that's not the mood in which my comments were written.

I saw people hinting about players getting upset which is why I wrote the last comment in my post #17, basically saying I'm aware of the railroading feel they may get. So when you still took the initiative to start pointing out my possible DM'ing flaws rather than give advice on how to capture them.

Because I didn't see railroading as having anything to do with it. They are separate issues. I don't mind being railroaded (too much, anyway). I do mind being captured.

Anyway, sorry if I'm coming off as a prick

I'm not sure I would go that far. You've certainly thrown out some unfounded accusations and made assumptions regarding my motives and personality. But that's par for the course on the internet.

dealing with stuff like that from gamers just gets very annoying when you expected it and tried to avoid it.

*shrug* Regardless of what you think of my posts in particular, I'd suggest you get used to it. People are going to post what they want to post.

Good gaming.

 

[EP]

I took two PCs hostage in a Modern campaign and the rest of them still fought. (Of course, they only did so because the two PCs cleverly worked themselves out of imprisonment and one of them got their hands on a gun, too.)

If you take a hostage, expect the PCs to figure out a way to free the hostage and kill the bad guys real fast.

I tried this once before too, but it also backfired because they all decided to fight it out and free the hostaged PC. When I decided to execute him instead, using the generic rules as written, he still lived...and I think the PCs knew that, which was why they rushed.

So I established some new rules for "deadly assaults." I've tried out two or three, but the main goal is to make the players realise that it is possible for the victim to die if they drop the ball for a second.

- if the hostage-taker succeeds on a grapple check and holds a weapon directly against a vital area of the hostage (i.e. throat), the hostage will suffer ability damage rather than hit point damage. For example, if the hostage-taker holds a dagger to the hostage's throat and slices it, the hostage will suffer 1d4+Strength points of Constitution damage. If the hostage-taker is a rogue (which he was in this particular case), the hostage cannot use her Dexterity modifier to improve AC and so the hostage will suffer sneak attack damage as well...in this case, it was 1d4+2d6 points of Constitution damage to a character with a Con of 12.
- create a multiplier for critical areas of the body when damage is applied directly, such as x3 against the throat and so forth
- each body part has a seperate amount of hit points based on a % of the total hit points of the hostage; if the hostage takes full damage for that body part, it is considered useless and could be fatal if the body part is essential to the character's life. For example, you could say the hostage's head has 20% of the character's total hit points, so a hostage with 56 hit points can suffer 11 points of damage directly to the head before being killed. (NOTE: Strikes directly to the chest do not apply, as it's safe to say most attacks are directed there already. Direct attacks can also be used to reduce the total hit points of a character.)

In either case, after trying out these rules, the PCs would attempt to use them too, so I had an XP penalty for killing characters this way. They're just "cheating", so why should they get the same XP as someone who hacked them to death?

If they know you have something that could actually threaten the hostage, they might take this idea more seriously.

 

[Cheiromancer]

If you use action points or swashbuckler cards or something, you can just metagame it: "OK. Everybody get an extra 3 action points. You are ambushed and beaten into unconsciousness. When you wake up..."

It is common in stories for Our Heroes to have a rough time of it for a while, but then, plucky souls that they are, thriving on adversity, they come back to save the day. Action points are a way of handling this. You give the players points when their characters are the victims of a cruel twist of fate, and they can use them to automatically confirm crits, or get bonuses on crucial rolls, and so on. Great fun.

I imagine someone would be happy to post links to good sources for action point rules- there was a recent thread where someone offered a free pdf of swashbuckler cards. There are lots of variants.

 

[satori01]

Put the party in a Tavern with an open bar. One Drinking contest later for prize money, and only one really Drunk PC should be left standing.

 

[PallidPatience]

Really easy: merciful. +1d6 damage, all non-lethal, for a measly +1 enhancement bonus cost (if the NPCs have the resources for that). Add it to bows, swords, maces, etc... and take the PCs out.