Eladrins, Tieflings, Dragonborn Too Far Outside Standard Fantasy?

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

STOP IT! The minis-heavy rules are not dedicated to getting you to spend thousands of dollars on minis, and the dragonborn/eladrin/tiefling are not some ploy to get you addicted to splatbooks.

The Dragonborn are in there because the 14 year old in my group saved up his allowance for three months so he could buy Races of the Dragon, because he wanted to play a dragonborn more than anything. Races of the Dragon and the 3.5 PHB are the only D&D books he owns.

As far as I'm concerned, including "fire breathing dragon dude" and "horned evil dude" is just as much a nod to the 14 year old "dude this is awesome" D&D player as not removing Elves or Dwarves is to the Grognards.

Not everything is a specific ploy to placate and/or manipulate you, sometimes it is aimed at a completely different demographic.

Lighten up. Take a deep breath and reread my post. My post had nothing to do with me.

But, if that 14-year old or anyone else that wants to play races outside the "standard" PC races wants to be able to do so more often, the perception of what an "acceptable" PC race is needs to change. Putting non-traditional races in the PHB is one way to change that perception and make those types of races acceptable to more DMs.

 

[MinionOfCthulhu]

In 4e, dragons are killable in your first few levels, and hey, look, there's one in your group!

Wyrmlings and very young dragons are also killable in your first few levels. Hell, the white dragon wyrmling was CR 2.

 

[hong]

He had been a wandering knight gallant who had spent lots of time questing and leveling before reaching the dragon. At the dragon, he showed signs of higher then heroic abilities; he used cleric buffs, fighter attacks, and was able to enchant a girdle to keep the beast meek and supplicant while being dragged to town. There he turned the entire city to his religion, and then slew it single handedly. Following that, the spring was blessed so as to cure all diseases.

Sounds pretty epic to me.

Exactly. He was high-enough level to kill a dragon the size of a large dog.

 

[hong]

Wyrmlings and very young dragons are also killable in your first few levels. Hell, the white dragon wyrmling was CR 2.

Obviously, CR 2 dragons are epic.

 

[Tervin]

I'm actually surprised that some people have issues with half-elves. Consider the following:

Eladrin - Galadriel. As a Noldor and the niece (or was it grand-niece?) of Feanor, she definitely would be an eladrin in D&D terms, not an Elf.

Elf - Legolas... sort of. Legolas, while a Prince among the Elves of Mirkwood, is not Avari or Wood Elven. He is actually Sindarin, just as his father Thranduil is. However, mechanically, he is much closer to Elf than Eladrin in 4E.

Half-Elf - Elrond and any of his children. Heck, one of the subplots of LotR is the reenactment of sorts of the romance of Beren and Luthien in Aragorn and Arwen.

If I remember my Tolkien correctly (very long time since I was a fan) Elrond would be a half-eladrin rather than a half-elf, using your division between elves and eladrin. This is one of my reasons against half-elves - using that mix rather than other mixes feels totally random. And a race that does not have a distinguishing culture is better created through feats or templates.

 

[Zogmo]

As far as I'm concerned, including "fire breathing dragon dude" and "horned evil dude" is just as much a nod to the 14 year old "dude this is awesome" D&D player as not removing Elves or Dwarves is to the Grognards.

Count me in dude!
I'm 43 and I feel like the 14 year old with the change-up of races in the PHB.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I think one of the big complaints with Dragonborn is how much they cheapen dragons.
...

In eastern mythology, dragons ARE the gods, identified with power beyond the conception of mortals.

You're saying 4e isn't anime enough?

 

[Doug McCrae]

The PHB should include the core elements that most if not all standard fantasy stories would include.

That would mean no Vancian magic or arcane/divine split.

 

[spaceboyzero]

I agree with the op that the new races aren't "standard" fantasy. I personally don't like the flavor of the tiefling. Are the Eladrin the good version of them? Or just another elf type creature? I don't mind the dragonborn, because it is Dungeons and Dragons after all. As for the new PHB classes, i like them all except for the warlock but i can live with it. I'm just not big on the flavor wotc are going for, but i will reserve final judgment until i see the whole product and read through it. All that being said i will not go out of my way to put tieflings, eladrin, or dragonborn in my campaign but the players will have the choice to play them. If wizards fluff on the new races ends up being great then i might change my mind.

Also remember people that the "monk" isnt standard fantasy nor is the Half-orc. However, i like the monk, Half-orc, gnome, and sorceror all better than what wotc has added at least flavor wise anyway.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I think people's opinions about the new races boils down to resistance to change. There is nothing inherently wrong with changing what races are Core in DnD. It's just some aren't going to like it.