Elder Evils question

[pawsplay]

Did anyone else notice that many of the Elder Evils have Dark Speech as a feat, even though they are not qualified? It sounds like a great, thematic feat, but unfortunately, you cannot take it if you cannot take ability damage, and all elder evils are immune. Any thoughts on what to do with this error?

 

[Darklone]

There are no such mundane things like errors for elder evils

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

Simple, do a write up that basically is a rip off of the regular version call it something like Elder Evil Dark Speech and change the wording to not reguire ability damage and its for Elder Evils only. And just by default say that the elder evils use your home brewed version. Players and fiends use the regular one.

Not perfect, but ive had to do it before when ive noticed errors, either in my creations or in anothers.

 

[frankthedm]

Compared to the Elder Evils' other at will abilities, do the effects of dark speech seem that much better? Because I'm betting the Elder Evils are the ones who are supposed to be using dark speech as if it is part of them and thus they suffer no stat damage.

 

[rjs]

Yep. Elder Evils are the exception. They get to use Dark Speech and not worry about the consequences. Hail evil.

 

[pawsplay]

It's not that the abilities matter so much as the flavor aspect. And it's a shame that Dark Speech was written in such a way, and elder evils in such a way, that they don't work, even though it's such a natural fit that the EE writers made the mistake.

I was kind of wondering if you couldn't put Dark Speech on a timer, like dragon breath, instead of ability damage. That would be pretty cool, right?

 

[javcs]

It's not that the abilities matter so much as the flavor aspect. And it's a shame that Dark Speech was written in such a way, and elder evils in such a way, that they don't work, even though it's such a natural fit that the EE writers made the mistake.

I was kind of wondering if you couldn't put Dark Speech on a timer, like dragon breath, instead of ability damage. That would be pretty cool, right?

They're the Elder Evils - they don't need to wait to use the Dark Speech. They use it to order breakfast.

And to tell kids to get off of their lawns.

 

[pawsplay]

They're the Elder Evils - they don't need to wait to use the Dark Speech. They use it to order breakfast.

And to tell kids to get off of their lawns.

That seems to cheapen it, somehow. If Dark Speech becomes just a package of at-will spell-like abilities, it's hardly Dark Speech.

 

[javcs]

That seems to cheapen it, somehow. If Dark Speech becomes just a package of at-will spell-like abilities, it's hardly Dark Speech.

Were it for nearly anyone else, I'd probably agree with you ... but again, Elder Evils ... they were around when it was used in daily conversation (if you were Evil).
I'd be disappointed in my Elder Evils if they weren't fully fluent and proficient with the oldest known language of Evil. YMMV
IMO, the reason why everyone else takes damage for using the Dark Speech is because well, they don't have enough of the right qualities to be able to use it freely - the Elder Evils ought to; plus, it's a language far older than almost every being remaining in existence - the Elder Evils are among those few who aren't vastly younger than it. Along those lines, if I were to bring in the first(oldest/original) Arch-Duke of Hell, or the eldest and most powerful of the Obyrith Progenitor races, I would probably waive the ability score damage for them as well - simply because it was the language of Evil when they were young.

The actual stats of the Elder Evils are not for player knowledge/in-character knowledge. If, as DM, you make a distinction in how you describe the Elder Evil using the Dark Speech as opposed to how the Elder Evil uses it's non-Dark Speech based abilities, then it doesn't really matter too much.
Honestly - there are abilities/effects that do basically the same thing as various functions of the Dark Speech as well or better than it - without ability score damage.
It's all in how it's presented to the players that really sets the Dark Speech apart, especially for entities such as the Elder Evils.

As you yourself said - it's not so much the abilities matter, but the flavor aspect.

 

[pawsplay]

I think at this point I am basically in a state of grieving with the realization that while Dark Speech and Elder Evils were always meant to be together, it just does not work at all, mechanically. Thanks for the practical advice.

I probably would not even have noticed, if I weren't writing up my own elder evil.