Elegant nixing of skill ranks?
- Thread starter Ry
- Start date
Herzog
Adventurer
ok.
I understand the bookkeeping. Especially with class and cross-class skills this can be a pain.
On the other hand, the system you propose ensures you don't have access to cross-class skills at all. (unless you introduce cross-class skill = 1/2 character level)
Furthermore, one of the rogue's class features is the huge amount of skill points he gets each level. Your will be taking that away from him.
On the subject of having seperate skills for move silently and hide etc., you could drastically reduce the number of skills, and create skills like 'sneak' for move silently and hide, handle (mechanical) device for open lock/disable device (and maybe even use magic device?) etc.
On the subject of an acrobatic thief character not having balance:
That's a players choice. Or maybe an error. If he survives the encounter, it's an error he will most certainly correct at the first opportunity....
Deciding where your proficiencies lie is one of the important parts of creating your character. There are no 'wrong' choices, only choices that make your character different from the 'standard' class.
Herzog
I understand the bookkeeping. Especially with class and cross-class skills this can be a pain.
On the other hand, the system you propose ensures you don't have access to cross-class skills at all. (unless you introduce cross-class skill = 1/2 character level)
Furthermore, one of the rogue's class features is the huge amount of skill points he gets each level. Your will be taking that away from him.
On the subject of having seperate skills for move silently and hide etc., you could drastically reduce the number of skills, and create skills like 'sneak' for move silently and hide, handle (mechanical) device for open lock/disable device (and maybe even use magic device?) etc.
On the subject of an acrobatic thief character not having balance:
That's a players choice. Or maybe an error. If he survives the encounter, it's an error he will most certainly correct at the first opportunity....
Deciding where your proficiencies lie is one of the important parts of creating your character. There are no 'wrong' choices, only choices that make your character different from the 'standard' class.
Herzog
ValhallaGH
Explorer
I've found Sadrik's Skills as Saves to be extremely elegant with lots of customization still built in and an affirmation of the power of the skill monkey.
Li Shenron
Legend
rycanada said:
What happens to cross-class skills? If skill points cannot be spent on them, where are the sneaky fighters, or the acrobatic fighters or the all-aware watchguard-type fighters in your world? What about chances of creating a non-staple character without necessarily turn to multiclass?
And what happens to multiclass characters, do they get ALL class skills of ALL classes maxed?
Just a couple of things to watch out for, I'm not saying that you shouldn't use these HR.
BTW, bookkeeping is often an excuse to ditch something you don't like. There's countless DMs who say "I made this stuff simple because I hate bookkeeping" and then turn to another aspect of the rule (e.g. armor) and make it way more complicated with huge bookkeeping.
Nothing wrong with not-liking some aspect of the game, like skills. When you don't like something, you obviously like bookkeeping of it even less!
Nyaricus
First Post
Here's somethign that struck me which hasn't ben mentioned yet:
Max skill ranks = level+3, right? So, skill ranks for class skills could be something like the following:
Low levels:
At low levels (levels 1-6) all of your class skills are all treated as having your levels' ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus your class skills are treated as one step higher (or, level +1, etc) up to one step higher.
Non-class skills are treated as having your level-6 ranks (with a minimum of 0) ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus, your non-class skills are treated as one step better (or, level -5, etc) up to level -5.
A low Intelligence will treat lower your ranks in both class and non-class skills by up to 3 levels for every point of negative Intelligence modifier.
Middle Levels:
At middle levels (levels 7-12) your class skills are treated as having your level+1 ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus your class skills are treated as one step higher (or, level+2 etc) up to two steps higher.
Non-class skills are treated as having your level-5 ranks ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus, your non-class skills are treated as one step better (or, level -4, etc) up to two steps better.
A low Intelligence will lower your ranks in both class and non-class skills by up to 2 levels less for every point of negative Intelligence modifier.
High Levels:
At high levels (levels 13-20) you class skills are treated as having your level +2 ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus your class skills are treated as one step higher (or, level+3, etc) up to three steps higher.
Non-class kills are treated as having you level-4 ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus, your non-class skills are treated as one step better (or, level-3, etc) up to three steps better.
A low Intelligence will lower your ranks in both class and non-class skills by up to a level less for every point of negative Intelligence modifier.
---------------------
It's kinda messy, kinda complicated, but it works, I think. It also includes Li's mention of how any of the previous incarnations of this do not include Int mods, etc.
I realise at high levels, my system actually makes class skills+a high Int mean that you can have some really high mods, but isn't that the point of being nearly EPIC level? Wizards know dark secrets from the beginning of the aeons, Swashbucklers have the greatest wits around, etc? Personally, having a potentual +2 points higher in class ranks for your skills is not that big of a deal, and hell, you could treat those bonuses which are greater than your level+3 as a specific bonus type (like insight, etc) if you really want to get nitty-gritty.
The design was that lower-level guys should have a harder time of it; negative Intelligence penalties are going to hold you back, and only marginally increase your potential. At higher levels, a low Int won't hold you back as much while a high Int will really allow you to reap the benefits.
Well, hope that made sense; it took about 20 minutes to come up with
cheers,
--N
Max skill ranks = level+3, right? So, skill ranks for class skills could be something like the following:
Low levels:
At low levels (levels 1-6) all of your class skills are all treated as having your levels' ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus your class skills are treated as one step higher (or, level +1, etc) up to one step higher.
Non-class skills are treated as having your level-6 ranks (with a minimum of 0) ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus, your non-class skills are treated as one step better (or, level -5, etc) up to level -5.
A low Intelligence will treat lower your ranks in both class and non-class skills by up to 3 levels for every point of negative Intelligence modifier.
Middle Levels:
At middle levels (levels 7-12) your class skills are treated as having your level+1 ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus your class skills are treated as one step higher (or, level+2 etc) up to two steps higher.
Non-class skills are treated as having your level-5 ranks ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus, your non-class skills are treated as one step better (or, level -4, etc) up to two steps better.
A low Intelligence will lower your ranks in both class and non-class skills by up to 2 levels less for every point of negative Intelligence modifier.
High Levels:
At high levels (levels 13-20) you class skills are treated as having your level +2 ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus your class skills are treated as one step higher (or, level+3, etc) up to three steps higher.
Non-class kills are treated as having you level-4 ranks in them. For every point of Intelligence bonus, your non-class skills are treated as one step better (or, level-3, etc) up to three steps better.
A low Intelligence will lower your ranks in both class and non-class skills by up to a level less for every point of negative Intelligence modifier.
---------------------
It's kinda messy, kinda complicated, but it works, I think. It also includes Li's mention of how any of the previous incarnations of this do not include Int mods, etc.
I realise at high levels, my system actually makes class skills+a high Int mean that you can have some really high mods, but isn't that the point of being nearly EPIC level? Wizards know dark secrets from the beginning of the aeons, Swashbucklers have the greatest wits around, etc? Personally, having a potentual +2 points higher in class ranks for your skills is not that big of a deal, and hell, you could treat those bonuses which are greater than your level+3 as a specific bonus type (like insight, etc) if you really want to get nitty-gritty.
The design was that lower-level guys should have a harder time of it; negative Intelligence penalties are going to hold you back, and only marginally increase your potential. At higher levels, a low Int won't hold you back as much while a high Int will really allow you to reap the benefits.
Well, hope that made sense; it took about 20 minutes to come up with
cheers,
--N
Last edited:
DarenCommons
First Post
skillz
Consolidate skillz. I changed hide and MS to "Stealth", Spot and Listen to "Awareness", and I think I'll merge Open Lock and Disable Device too. It gives an extra boost to thieves but I like that. I like tto allow for more frivolous skill choices like Knowledges and heraldry and such.
Consolidate skillz. I changed hide and MS to "Stealth", Spot and Listen to "Awareness", and I think I'll merge Open Lock and Disable Device too. It gives an extra boost to thieves but I like that. I like tto allow for more frivolous skill choices like Knowledges and heraldry and such.
