Elemental Champion Custom Class - Feedback Plz :)

[BassZ1890]

Greetings everyone So Ive been working on a custom class for the 3.5 rule set for a while now. I think that its very balanced but I was hoping to get some more opinions on the matter. So here is what I have...

~GAME RULE INFORMATION~
Elemental Champions have the following game statistics.

~ABILITIES~
Wisdom will be the Elemental Champions strongest characteristic. Wisdom directly effects most all of their abilities With charisma being their second most important attribute. There will be times when you will be the bridge between the elements and the mortals.

~ALIGNMENT~
Any

~HIT DIE~
2d4

~CLASS SKILLS~
The class skills for an Elemental Champion and their modifiers are Climb(Str), Diplomacy(Cha), Gather Information(Cha), Heal(Wis), Intimidate(Cha), Jump(Str), Knowledge Geography(Int), Knowledge Nature(Int), Knowledge The Plane(Int), Listen(Wis), Sense Motive(Wis), Spot(Wis), Survival(Wis), and Swim(str). Automatic Languages: <native tongue>, Aquan, Auran, Ignan and Terran.

~Skill Points At 1st Level~
(4+Int Modifier)x4

~Skill Points At Each Additional Level~
4+Int Modifier

~Class Features~
All of the following are Class Features of the Elemental Champion.

~Weapon and Armor Proficiency~
An Elemental Champion is Proficient with maces, hammers, clubs and picks. An Elemental Champion is not proficient with any armor or shield.

~AC Bonus (EX)~
The Elemental Champions are defended by the Elemental Lords themselves. Elemental Champions gain a stone like skin when wearing no armor Giving them a +3 to their AC. In addition at level 4 and every 4 levels afterwards the Elemental Champion gains an additional +1 to their AC. These bonuses apply also to touch attacks and when flat footed! These effects are removed if the Elemental Champion is wearing any armor or is wearing a shield!

Level|Attack Bonus|Fort|Ref|Will| Special
1st| 1| +2| +0| +1| Elemental Balance, Waters Blessing, Tempest's Counterattack
2nd| 2| +2| +0| +2| Imbue Weapon Lesser Fire
3rd| 3| +3| +1| +2| Blessing of the Wind
4th| 4| +3| +1| +3| Command Water 1/day
5th| 5| +4| +2| +3| Improved Tempest's Counterattack
6th| 6| +4| +2| +4| Lesser Fire Resistance
7th| 7| +5| +3| +4| Earthen Blessing
8th| 8| +5| +3| +5| Command Water 2/Day, Elemental Precision
9th| 9| +6| +4| +5| Imbue Weapon Fire
10th| 10| +6| +4| +6| Greater Blessing of the Wind
11th| 11/1| +7| +5| +6| Greater Earthen Blessing
12th| 12/2| +7| +5| +7| Command Water 3/day
13th| 13/3| +8| +6| +7| Greater Tempest's Counterattack
14th| 14/4| +8| +6| +8| Greater Fire Resistance
15th| 15/5| +9| +7| +8| Supreme Earthen Blessing
16th| 16/6| +9| +7| +9| Command Water 4/day, Improved Elemental Precision
17th| 17/7| +10| +8| +9| Supreme Blessing of the Wind
18th| 18/8| +10| +8| +10| Imbue Weapon Greater Fire
19th| 19/9| +11| +9| +10| Fire Immunity
20th| 20/10| +11| +9| +11| Command Water 5/day

~Elemental Balance~
The Elemental Champions is at perfect balance. When the Elemental Champion attacks they attack with both weapons at the same time instead of as individual attacks. The Champion no longer gains additional attacks with their off hand as a result. Attacking with both weapons only takes 1 attack roll. In addition the elemental champion only suffers a -4 penalty to their attack rolls while using Two Weapons.

~Water's Blessing~
The Elemental Champion can now choose to use their Wisdom Modifier instead of their Strength Modifier for Attack rolls!

~Tempests' Counterattack~
Every time the Elemental Champion is critically hit in melee range they gain an attack of Opportunity but at a -4 to their attack roll.

~Imbue Weapon Lesser Fire~
The Elemental Champions weapons are now imbued with Lesser Fire doing 1d4+wis modifier fire damage on each successful weapon hit.

~Blessing of The Wind~
The Elemental Champion is blessed by the wind increasing maximum movement distance by 10 feet.

~Improved Tempest's Counterattack~
The Elemental Champion no longer suffers a penalty to their Attack of Opportunity gained from Tempest's Counterattack.

~Lesser Fire Resistance~
The Elemental Champion gains 3 DR to all fire based effects.

~Earthen Blessing~
When the Elemental Champion gains a Critical Strike they regain 1 point of health.

~Elemental Precision~
You now only suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls with Elemental Balance!

~Imbue Weapon Fire~
The Elemental Champions weapons are now imbued with Fire doing 2d4+wis modifier fire damage on each successful weapon hit.

~Greater Blessing of The Wind~
The Elemental Champion is further blessed increasing the maximum movement distance to a total of 20 feet.

~Greater Earthen Blessing~
When the Elemental Champion gains a Critical Strike they now regain 2 points of health!

~Improved Elemental Precision~
You no longer suffer a penalty on attack rolls with Elemental Balance!

~Greater Tempest's Counterattack~
The Elemental Champion now gains +4 to their Attack of Opportunity gained from Tempest's Counterattack.

~Greater Fire Resistance~
The Elemental Champion now gains 6 DR to all fire based damage!

~Supreme Earthen Blessing~
When the Elemental Champion gains a Critical Strike they now regain 3 points of health!

~Supreme Blessing of The Wind~
The Elemental Champion receives the most powerful blessing of wind increasing their movement speed to a total of 30 feet!

~Imbue Weapon Greater Fire~
The Elemental Champions weapons are now imbued with Greater Fire doing 3d4+wis modifier fire damage on each successful weapon hit.

~Fire Immunity~
The Elemental Champion is now immune to all fire based damage!

~Command Water~
The Elemental Champion can command up to 100 gallons of water for 2+Charisma Modifier turns. Command water requires verbal components so if the Elemental Champion is silenced the Commandment ends.

-Command 1-
Move Water
Allows the Elemental Champion to move up 100 gallons of water 20 feet every non-combat turn and 10 feet every combat turn.

-Command II-
Freeze Water
Allows the Elemental Champion to freeze up to 100 gallons of water instantly! You Can not move ice.

-Command III-
Melt Ice
Allows the Elemental Champion to melt up to 100 gallons of Frozen Water instantly! You Can not move ice.

-Command IV-
Boil Water
Allows the Elemental Champion to instantly bring the temperature of up to 100 gallons water to a Boil. Boiling Water deals 1D4 damage on contact and 3D4 damage on being fully submerged. Lasts 3 Turns

-Command V-
Evaporate Water
Allows the Elemental Champion to instantly turn up to 100 gallons of water into steam. The Elemental Champion can not control steam. Steam affects an area of 30 feet from where the water was evaporated. All attack rolls made inside the steam suffer a -4. Lasts 1 turn for every 25 gallons.

-Command VI-
Collect Water
The Elemental Champion can pull the moisture out of the air creating up to 1xWisdom Modifier gallons of water. Takes 3 turns.

-Command VII-
Purify Water
The Elemental Champion can Purify up to 100 gallons of water removing all corruption from it. Takes 3 turns.
​

So any Feedback about how balanced you think it is would be great

Edited - 11/22/2010 1:37pm
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[nonsi256]

Quite messy.




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HD:​

Use standard d8​

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CLASS SKILLS:​

What happened to Climb & Swim ?​

Instead of "Speak Language Elemental(none)", just say "Automatic Languages: <native tongue>, Aquan, Auran, Ignan and Terran.​

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Skill Points:​

4 +Int-mod would be ok (and standard).​

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>> The Elemental Champions are defended by the Elemental Lords themselves gaining​

>> a stone like skin when wearing light robes gaining their Wisdom(if any) to their AC.​

This makes no sense.​

If they're defended by the Elemental Lords, then this has nothing to do with their Wis.​

Armor bonus doesn't stack and is unaffected by movement hindrance, so the "when wearing light robes" is irrelevant.​

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Weapons and Armor:​

Just say "An Elemental Champion is Proficient with maces, hammers, clubs and picks. An Elemental Champion is not proficient with any armor or shield".​

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Feats:​

>> Elemental Champions do not get Level (1,5,9,&13) Feats since​

These are not standard levels where feats are gained anyway.​

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>> they gain all Two Weapon Feats for free without the pre-reqs.​

I fail to see how built-in TWF has anything to do with the elemental theme.​

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Saves:​

Make them standard (good, poor and good – respectively).​

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Tempests' Counterattack:​

There are feats that do similar things and none is in effect all the time (and most have prereqs).​

This heavily steps on the toes of the martial classes.​

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Command Water:​

Nice if you wish to be a gardener, but not very useful combat-wise.​

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Supreme Tempest's Counterattack:​

"Go sit in the corner and cry your heart out, Warblade. And you Fighter, you might just as well kill yourself"​

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I really think you should rebuild this one from the ground up (I did for a lot of my homebrew stuff – often more than once)​

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One more thing. Center-align is really eye-poking. And put some line breaks before each title.

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[BassZ1890]

Quite messy.

​

HD:​

Use standard d8
​

I thought about this one and wanted to do something unique for the class instead of the standard 1D8. Just to make it different from a statistics point of view. Does the +1 to minimum health you can get(before constitution) really break it?
​

​

CLASS SKILLS:​

What happened to Climb & Swim ?​

Instead of "Speak Language Elemental(none)", just say "Automatic Languages: <native tongue>, Aquan, Auran, Ignan and Terran.
​

You know now that I look at the skills chosen what was I thinking? He is a master of the elements yet he lacks the ability to climb and swim.

You have a good point. I just wanted to use used Elemental to encompass all the languages. There is no point to it other then to make 4 into 1.

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Skill Points:

4 +Int-mod would be ok (and standard).
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Ok
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>> The Elemental Champions are defended by the Elemental Lords themselves gaining​

>> a stone like skin when wearing light robes gaining their Wisdom(if any) to their AC.​

This makes no sense.​

If they're defended by the Elemental Lords, then this has nothing to do with their Wis.​

Armor bonus doesn't stack and is unaffected by movement hindrance, so the "when wearing light robes" is irrelevant.
​

Good Point again. Thank you for the feedback.
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Weapons and Armor:​

Just say "An Elemental Champion is Proficient with maces, hammers, clubs and picks. An Elemental Champion is not proficient with any armor or shield".​

That sounds a lot better XD
​

Feats:

>> Elemental Champions do not get Level (1,5,9,&13) Feats since

These are not standard levels where feats are gained anyway.​

​

>> they gain all Two Weapon Feats for free without the pre-reqs.​

I fail to see how built-in TWF has anything to do with the elemental theme.
​

It does not but I have just not found a better way of saying "Your class Dual wields because it embodies the fury and rage of the elements in combat" I view dual wielding as a furious attack style. The problem being that Wisdom and Charisma are your main attributes you will want to spend points in makes getting the TWF feats very hard hindering your potential by forcing you to get a higher dex.

Also I don't know why it insists on quoting as 2 quotes... Ive tried fixing this for like 30 minutes now and I just give up >.>
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Saves:​

Make them standard (good, poor and good – respectively).
​

Ok.
​

​

Tempests' Counterattack:​

There are feats that do similar things and none is in effect all the time (and most have prereqs).​

This heavily steps on the toes of the martial classes.​

Alrighty, I will try to figure something out for this. Thanks for your feedback.

​

Command Water:​

Nice if you wish to be a gardener, but not very useful combat-wise.
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Smoke Screens are nice, Freezing Ice on the floor to hinder movement at a choke point. Push the water onto a door and freeze it so enemies can not enter the room easily.

I disagree. I see it having many great uses for support if you use your imagination instead of just thinking in terms of "It can do up to xDx in damage"
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Supreme Tempest's Counterattack:​

"Go sit in the corner and cry your heart out, Warblade. And you Fighter, you might just as well kill yourself"

I really think you should rebuild this one from the ground up (I did for a lot of my homebrew stuff – often more than once)
​

Alright I will look into the skill and if I cant bring it in align with the other classes or it just feels weird then I will look into something different.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

You don't gain damage reduction against fire, you gain energy resistance. Apart from the fact that DR only covers physical damage, "energy resistance against fire" means you subtract that from fire-based attacks while "DR X/fire" would imply you subtract that from anything except fire-based attacks.

I thought about this one and wanted to do something unique for the class instead of the standard 1D8. Just to make it different from a statistics point of view. Does the +1 to minimum health you can get(before constitution) really break it?

The standards are standard for a reason. Partly for compatibility--does this class get double Con to HP with its 2 HD at each level? What happens if he increases his HD a size from a template?--and partly for consistency: you see "6d4 HD" in a NPC's stat block, you shouldn't have to check how many levels of this class he has.

It does not but I have just not found a better way of saying "Your class Dual wields because it embodies the fury and rage of the elements in combat" I view dual wielding as a furious attack style. The problem being that Wisdom and Charisma are your main attributes you will want to spend points in makes getting the TWF feats very hard hindering your potential by forcing you to get a higher dex.

That's all fine and dandy, but you do not take away a character's default feats. What if he doesn't want to dual-wield? What if he's multiclassed?

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My honest, overall opinion? This class is all but useless. The only worthwhile ability you get is control water, and that could easily be made into a spell for wu-jen or shugenjas, or even a feat for the more monk-ish classes. Everything else this class does can be done better by a vanilla paladin with a flaming sword, fire-resistance or -immunity items, the TWF feats, and a handful of other combat feats...and he'd still have other useful stuff to do on top of that.

I hate to sound so harsh, but that's the way it is.

 

[BassZ1890]

You don't gain damage reduction against fire, you gain energy resistance. Apart from the fact that DR only covers physical damage, "energy resistance against fire" means you subtract that from fire-based attacks while "DR X/fire" would imply you subtract that from anything except fire-based attacks.



The standards are standard for a reason. Partly for compatibility--does this class get double Con to HP with its 2 HD at each level? What happens if he increases his HD a size from a template?--and partly for consistency: you see "6d4 HD" in a NPC's stat block, you shouldn't have to check how many levels of this class he has.



That's all fine and dandy, but you do not take away a character's default feats. What if he doesn't want to dual-wield? What if he's multiclassed?

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My honest, overall opinion? This class is all but useless. The only worthwhile ability you get is control water, and that could easily be made into a spell for wu-jen or shugenjas, or even a feat for the more monk-ish classes. Everything else this class does can be done better by a vanilla paladin with a flaming sword, fire-resistance or -immunity items, the TWF feats, and a handful of other combat feats...and he'd still have other useful stuff to do on top of that.

I hate to sound so harsh, but that's the way it is.

Thank you for your reply. First off I would like to redirect you to the first post of this page which you can see that well before you posted there were some changes to the class that you have missed. I would also like to inform you that this is a WIP and was posted here for constructive criticism from some of the veteran 3.5e players.

I would like to thank you for the correction of DR to ER. This has been updated in my notes and I am thankful for this help! I will update the page with this change on my next major revision.

I would also like to inform you that the "Two Weapon Fighting" feats were removed and replaced well before you posted. Please direct your self to the first post to see the current version of the class. And do note more changes are on their way to make this class easier to multi-class with some description updates for Elemental Balance and Elemental Precision.

As for the 2d4 instead of 1d8 I can explain and hopefully clear up some confusion. The class was intended to gain ((2d4)+con) per level not ((1d4+con)+(1d4+con)) per level. My guess is that the way the information was worded this caused some confusion. I thank you for point this out so I can reword this section. I would also like to mention that this was done to add a small amount of uniqueness class. Though its not much it is a feature that no other class has.

Again thank you for your opinion on these matters. I would also like to remind you that this class is a WIP and was posted here for constructive criticism. So I would ask that on your next posting that you leave more constructive feedback to help the development.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Thank you for your reply. First off I would like to redirect you to the first post of this page which you can see that well before you posted there were some changes to the class that you have missed. I would also like to inform you that this is a WIP and was posted here for constructive criticism from some of the veteran 3.5e players.

I would also like to inform you that the "Two Weapon Fighting" feats were removed and replaced well before you posted. Please direct your self to the first post to see the current version of the class. And do note more changes are on their way to make this class easier to multi-class with some description updates for Elemental Balance and Elemental Precision.

I noticed the changes; I was remarking on the "taking default feats away" portion to reinforce nonsi's comment.

As for the 2d4 instead of 1d8 I can explain and hopefully clear up some confusion. The class was intended to gain ((2d4)+con) per level not ((1d4+con)+(1d4+con)) per level. My guess is that the way the information was worded this caused some confusion. I thank you for point this out so I can reword this section. I would also like to mention that this was done to add a small amount of uniqueness class. Though its not much it is a feature that no other class has.

1) I figured out that that's what you meant; however, when you place a nonstandard HD amount in the HD section, you can't simply assume people will read it the same way you did.

2) You don't "add uniqueness" to a class by giving it multiple HD, or a strange save progression, or an odd number of skill points, or something like that. Every little tweak like that that you add makes it slightly less compatible with the system and slightly more difficult for people to just pick up and play. Add uniqueness in the class features and leave the chassis alone.

Again thank you for your opinion on these matters. I would also like to remind you that this class is a WIP and was posted here for constructive criticism. So I would ask that on your next posting that you leave more constructive feedback to help the development.

Yes, I realize it's a WIP, and yes, I realize you asked for constructive criticism. That's about as constructive as I can make it; I pointed out something to clarify and tried to get you to think about exactly what you were doing. As for the rest, I'm serious in saying the class doesn't really do anything that any 3.5 character couldn't do with a bunch of magic items and feats except for the Control Water ability, and again a custom spell or item that did that would be much more worthwhile than a custom class. If I were to give "constructive criticism" it would simply be to go through every ability and say "A magic item/spell giving this costs X gp, you'd need Y to be competitive at this level, replace it with Z ability."

I agree with nonsi that this class needs a rewrite from the ground up. And I don't often agree with nonsi when it comes to homebrew.