Elemental Evil characters not allowed in Season 3?

[Mirtek]

On the last copy I had of the LFRPG there are 20 items on that table....12 say ALL.....8 show some kind of restriction. And there is a small list of further restrictions right under the table as well.

One of the 12 was "Power Series" aka fully allowing six full splatbooks in one stroke. Of the eight with more or less restrictions one of them was Dragon Magazine whose only restriction was "except the Unearthed Arcana column". Four others were non-player books (Open Grave, Manaual of the Planes and even two Monster Manuals), which only have a few choice bits allowed. You could call those as either the only samples of heavy restrictions or call those outstanding for even being considered at all.

Another "restricted" book was the Neverwinter Setting book, of which only "everything in chapter 2" was allowed. However looking into the Neverwinter Setting book, chapter 2 was actually the entirety of character mechanics it contained and in the non-allowed chapters there was nothing but fluff. So there wasn't really anything that was forbidden by adding the "everything in chapter 2" clause since the rest of the boom didn't have anything a player could have taken.

12/20 -> allowed fully (on of them being six books allowed in one stroke)
2/20 -> essentially allowed fully (Dragon in except unearthed arcana out and a restriction on the NW guide that actually restricted nothing at all)
2/20 -> mildly restricted (Eberron and Dark Sun Campaign guides both had some setting specific parts not allowed)
4/20 -> heavily restricted (non-player books only)

Conclusion: Basically every content aimed at players ever released in 4e was fully allowed in LFR, the majority of content aimed at players and DMs equally was allowed in LFR and even some tibits from content only aimed at DMs was allowed for players in LFR

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

One of the 12 was "Power Series" aka fully allowing six full splatbooks in one stroke. Of the eight with more or less restrictions one of them was Dragon Magazine whose only restriction was "except the Unearthed Arcana column". Four others were non-player books (Open Grave, Manaual of the Planes and even two Monster Manuals), which only have a few choice bits allowed. You could call those as either the only samples of heavy restrictions or call those outstanding for even being considered at all.

Another "restricted" book was the Neverwinter Setting book, of which only "everything in chapter 2" was allowed. However looking into the Neverwinter Setting book, chapter 2 was actually the entirety of character mechanics it contained and in the non-allowed chapters there was nothing but fluff. So there wasn't really anything that was forbidden by adding the "everything in chapter 2" clause since the rest of the boom didn't have anything a player could have taken.

12/20 -> allowed fully (on of them being six books allowed in one stroke)
2/20 -> essentially allowed fully (Dragon in except unearthed arcana out and a restriction on the NW guide that actually restricted nothing at all)
2/20 -> mildly restricted (Eberron and Dark Sun Campaign guides both had some setting specific parts not allowed)
4/20 -> heavily restricted (non-player books only)

Conclusion: Basically every content aimed at players ever released in 4e was fully allowed in LFR, the majority of content aimed at players and DMs equally was allowed in LFR and even some tibits from content only aimed at DMs was allowed for players in LFR

And AL does have all the items produced for players available. The EEPG was something special AL did by taking an Appendix of a MODULE and made it available to characters for that season.

 

[Mirtek]

And AL does have all the items produced for players available. The EEPG was something special AL did by taking an Appendix of a MODULE and made it available to characters for that season.

I didn't refute that, in fact that's what I stated when I wrote "there aren't any more significant options in existance in 5e as a whole for AL to chose/ban from even if they tried"

I refute kalani's statement that LFR had any "extensive banlist that was frequently updated" as it hardly had anything worth being called a "banlist" at all (compared to the quite extensive list of hundreds of single rule items specifically allowed/restricted/baned in the LG campaign guide)

4e in general received a lot of errata, but that was a general issue with 4e, regardless of what LFR did allow or did not allow

 

[kalani]

I admit, I may also be confusing the LFR banlist with the frequent errata for 4E in general (some of which was errata'ed specifically to address broken combo's). I cannot recall exactly, as I stopped playing LFR in 2010, and haven't played 4E since the announcement of Dnd Next/5E. Either way, the frequent updates annoyed LFR players immensely.

 

[darjr]

Some of those updates were fixes to unintended consequences, weren't they?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

LFR was very little ban, now 4e in general had a lot of errata, but that was easy to follow...

I ran a swordmage through paragon levels with very little issue.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You said "you don't play because of the restriction". Not "you stopped playing". And so I asked.

ok...

I never played any LFR but I played a lot of Living Greyhawk and remember there was a loooong long list of banned content, open content, and the infamous not-open-not-closed content that required a cert to unlock. That was annoying and it was a pain having to hunt for pre-reqs

my experience is the opposite of you, I have very little LG and a lot of LFR, and the restrictions of LFR were few and far between.

So the guy running the group is a "jerk" for wanting to follow the rules? For wanting to enforce the limitation on the aasimar to requiring the reward cert people won or earned (or, yes, paid for) rather than devaluing it and letting someone play an illegal character that can't be used elsewhere?
Would he also be a jerk if he didn't let you fudge a roll? Or not let you roll for ability scores?

he was a jerk because no one, not even the guy running knew that some things were restricted and we drew up what we thought were legal characters, and then to tell someone 'sorry your character needs to change or you need this super rare waiver out of game' is jerk...yes.

Is the aasimar banned for balance reasons? No. But it's limited for flavour and as a reward, like magic items.

it is abatray and random...

Pathfinder Society

don't care what piazo does...

She may not be on this message board,

she doesn't follow D&D online at all, she buys books that show up at the comic shop... the first she heard of this new book was me talking at our game about it comeing out the next week...

but the news on SCAG was also posted on the AL website, tweeted, and on Facebook. And I imagine the people running the events will also be made aware so they can educate at game tables. There's an expectation that if you're playing in OP you read the Player's Guides for the campaign and check the rules.

I don't know where that expectation comes from... back when LFR was running for 4e we just got people who had never role played to come in on wensday and saterday....

The story origins have been in the Player's Guides for a while. It was pretty apparent from the beginning that you would not likely be able to freely mix-and-match books.

I agree, we did expect the rules to hace reasons though not just "cause I say so" based on a fear that someday somewhere it might be needed...

That SCAG is open to all story origins and not just Rage of Demons is actually more liberal a ruling than I was expecting. I thought the book would be limited to one story origin.

I just assumed being the new forgotten realms book it would be allowed like the PHB for any story in the realms, and the next book would be restriced only if it wasn't meant for realms play...

 

[Jester David]

my experience is the opposite of you, I have very little LG and a lot of LFR, and the restrictions of LFR were few and far between.

And did that have a positive effect on the game and play experiences?
I know even after the moderate restrictions of LG they were tightening things for Xedn'drik Expeditions. I can't imagine complete freedom working well. I only ran 4e for a couple years and the all-in philosophy caused issues

he was a jerk because no one, not even the guy running knew that some things were restricted and we drew up what we thought were legal characters, and then to tell someone 'sorry your character needs to change or you need this super rare waiver out of game' is jerk...yes.

How dare he obey the rules of the campaign.

Oh man, imagine being someone who paid that $100 to be special and unique, and showing up at the table to find another aasimar because the DM thought the restriction was "arbitrary and random".

it is abatray and random...

The race isn't in the PHB. That's neither arbitrary nor random.
Should the eladrin be fair as well? How about the Death domain? Why not the Minotaur from Unearthed Arcana?

don't care what piazo does...

PFS is the most popular organised play program. It's always a good idea to pay attention to what the leader is doing.

she doesn't follow D&D online at all, she buys books that show up at the comic shop... the first she heard of this new book was me talking at our game about it comeing out the next week...

That is unfortunate. But "because someone might not know of the restriction" is not a good reason to have no restrictions.

I don't know where that expectation comes from... back when LFR was running for 4e we just got people who had never role played to come in on wensday and saterday....

And these brand new players had multiple books and wanted to mix options?
Isn't it better for these new peoples if the choice is easy? "You only ever need two books" rather than "buy this shelf of books to remain competitive."

agree, we did expect the rules to hace reasons though not just "cause I say so" based on a fear that someday somewhere it might be needed...

Better to have those rules and apply them all the time then change partway through the campaign's life and throw people for a loop. Or apply them too late.
Think of how pissed people would be if they had been playing for months, missed the news, and couldn't play a character they wanted. It catches more people because it gets people who *think* they know the rules and new players rather than just new players. It doesn't fix the poroblkem for people like your friend, but delays and then catches all new people.

I just assumed being the new forgotten realms book it would be allowed like the PHB for any story in the realms, and the next book would be restriced only if it wasn't meant for realms play...

So you basically just assumed the base rules for the campaign wouldn't apply?
Well, in fairness, they did tweak the rules. They did make the book more open than just a single story origin.

Really, it seems unlikely WotC will release a generic book. Everything is likely to either be tied to the Realms or a storyline or both.

 

[CapnZapp]

This has been clarified by the admins to mean

Thank you.

Where can I read about these clarifications? Could they be added to the document itself?

 

[Mirtek]

he was a jerk because no one, not even the guy running knew that some things were restricted and we drew up what we thought were legal characters, and then to tell someone 'sorry your character needs to change or you need this super rare waiver out of game' is jerk...yes.

Well, mentioning the cert might be being a jerk, but pointing out that the character can not be played that way no, that's just the "duty" of any DM running an OP game

I don't know where that expectation comes from... back when LFR was running for 4e we just got people who had never role played to come in on wensday and saterday...

which means you have to explain the rules to them, not that they are above any rules. If new people show up on the open training days of your soccer, baseball or football team, they also can not just take the ball and do whatever they think with it

If someone shows up in OP with a non allowed race or class, because that was in a rulebook, or with rolled ability scores, because this was in a a rulebook, the local OP DM or organizer has to sit down with them and explain them the nature of OP and it's specific rules