D&D 4E Elemental Heroes - Avatar: the Last Airbender 4e

[Siberys]

I have a feeling this forum gets a bit more traffic than the blogs do, so I'm creating this thread as a central location for discussion of my elemental class homebrews. Hopefully people are interested.

Check out the initial post.

As of now, the entirety of the airbender class (class, PPs, ED, hybrid, and multiclass) is posted. I'd like some feedback, especially on the powers.

As a side note, this is not entirely my work; it's based off of the work done here; however, I have taken a very free hand with reworking the classes found there, for a couple of reasons outlined in the initial post linked to above.

 

[Mengu]

I didn't examine the whole thing, just looked at a random sprinkling of stuff, so here is a random sprinkling of comments.

Range: Line - I'm not grasping what this says. Read it twice, didn't feel like reading it a third time. There has to be a cleaner way to say it. I'm guessing this is supposed to be like a "push" direction, and path is supposed to be like a "slide" direction. But I could be wrong.

I'm seeing quite a few close powers for the class's cloth armor and hit points. I'd go with 12+Con, 5 hp/level. No need to be extra squishy. They are already taxed with unarmored agility.

Airbending - saying "here have a useless power" is, well... not nice. You should at least give some examples of what can be done with it. I'd make it do stuff like knock a light vase off a shelf, snuff out a candle, clean off a dusty tablet, maybe by paragon or epic, somewhat more impressive actions like slam open a door that's unlocked, or controlled actions like air lift small objects such as keys. Also, I probably wouldn't give this feature out free with MC, not because it's overpowering, but because it makes the class somewhat special, and easy access by everyone makes it not so special. I do understand the desire to follow the mythos though.

Monastic training - I don't know what "move your speed" means. Do you actually mean ending movement a number of squares equal to your speed away from your starting square? Or do you just mean move any number of squares? The intent is unclear to me.

Grasping Vortex - Since the damage is so low, it might be worthwhile to just change target to enemies in burst.

Downdraft - is this supposed to have a sustain minor or something? It feels off.

Aerial Acrobat - the features are kind of stinky. They don't particularly help a controller. Not sure what to do about it, but one of the 3 features should do something else. Also make Gentle Fall a free action. It's kind of pointless otherwise half the time because traps usually go off during your turn, so you can't use an immediate action, and you often want to jump down from heights without taking damage, which this power should help with.

 

[Siberys]

Line - You're basically right on the line/path bit; the original wording in the document I linked to was very vague... That was an attempt to clear it up. I'll go over it again.

Close Powers - I believe all of the close powers either move the airbender or the targets, which I was thinking would mitigate their close-ness. I imagined some of these as being 'panic buttons' to get enemies away from the bender. I also think that most of the close powers are non-build-specific, except for a few Sirocco ones. I'll still look into upping their durability.

Airbending - I wanted something like prestidigitation. The goal here is to have it be open-ended, but not really have a mechanical effect; a few examples might be worthwhile. And as for free with multiclassing... well, minor things like that don't affect balance much, though you're right about feel. I think I'll leave it on for now, unless there's a really good reason to take it off - if it's expanded significantly, for example. I mean, the big stuff is supposed to be powers other than the airbending power, after all.

When I say 'use a move action to move your speed or shift', I mean 'spend a move action to walk or spend a move action to shift'. Should I put that in there? I was trying to word it naturally while catching the meaning...

Grasping Vortex - I'll look at that... It sounds reasonable.

Downdraft - Nope, no sustain. This is pretty much word for word the Wizard's spell 'Phantom Chasm', as I recall.

Aerial Acrobat - I like the action point mechanic - I see it as a sort of 'get out of trouble' card. Agreed on the other features, though... And good catch on the Gentle Fall power. I think I'll go back and make all of the fall-triggered powers free actions if I haven't already.

 

[Siberys]

Updated the Airbender

Changes;
Removed Lines/Paths - replaced with blasts/bursts
Wind Pulse - changed to blast, increased push to be based off of secondary
Monastic Training - Reworded trigger
Airbending - Added examples
Air Lift - Added; Utility 2
Grasping Vortex - I realised I based this off of Grasping Shards. Upped damage anyways.
Aerial Acrobat - Changed features... still not sure, but they're definitely better.

 

[Mengu]

Did a bit more random skimming.

I'd suggest maybe Harsh Gust and Wind Pulse target one creature in burst to be a little different. Maybe also up the damage to 1d10 for Wind Pulse.

Wind Tunnel doesn't work. Grab ends if a creature is not within your reach. By pushing, you are making sure the creature is not within reach. You might be able to make the intended mechanic work with a conjuration, or it's probably just easier to say immobilized (either till end of next turn or save ends, whichever floats your boat).

Wind Whip is still a range of path you, forgot to fix it. Again I'd maybe make this target one or two creatures in close blast 5. Some selective targeting is good for a controller.

Breathless Cyclone save penalties seem a bit much, maybe -1, -2 would be enough.

Monastery Training (level 6 utility) needs duration.

Shielding winds seems a bit weak for a level 10 utility. Maybe make it +4 bonus against ranged and area attacks. Or better, make it a daily that lasts till end of encounter.

Windrunner's Quick as the Wind level 12 utility could be an encounter power without harming anything. Rangers and Hunters can basically do this through heroic.

I'd also be tempted to make a ranged basic attack that's a class feature. Doesn't need to do anything other than ranged 10, dex vs reflex implement attack, 1d8+dex damage.

 

[Siberys]

Good idea on the harsh gust/wind pulse - the at-wills are a bit homogenous, aren't they?

Grab is based on the range of the effect that caused it, so it will work. Immobilized might still be easier, though.

Good ideas on wind whip. The lack of selective targeting is borne from how I'd imagine the powers working, but you're right at the end of the day.

I'll look into the save penalties on breathless cyclone. Ditto on improving shielding winds and quick as the wind.

I like the RBA idea.

One thing that I really would like to know about is the scaling. How does it match up?

 

[Mengu]

Scaling seems fine to me.

Extra damage alone for scaling is probably a bit below par, as we expect more out of higher level powers. But some of the strongest powers are first level for other classes too, so I'm not sure if that's a big deal.

I'd say try it as is, you can always tweak along the way, or maybe add a paragon feat that modifies encounter powers or dailies in some manner. For instance a feat to add slide 1 to all encounter powers, and/or a feat to add daze to one target hit by a daily can go a long way toward getting more bang out of the powers as you level up. You could add an epic feat for area increase on encounter and daily powers perhaps.

Add a control enhancing ki focus or two that gets stronger through tiers, and you should be set.

 

[Siberys]

Updated the Airbender.

Changes;
Harsh Gust - now targets one creature
Wind Pulse - Targets one creature; increased damage
Wind Tunnel - Rewrote power
Monastery Training - Added duration
Shielding Winds - Increased duration; upped to Daily
Quick as the Wind - Reduced to encounter power
Air Punch - Renamed Air Flurry
Evasive Winds - Renamed Windshaper, added Air Punch power

Note on Breathless Cyclone; -2 to saves is available in heroic, and as an all-around debuff. Having it apply to the one power should work, I think.

 

[Siberys]

Okay, so I've been working on the Earthbender, and I'd like some feedback on the class features before I shoot ahead on the powers.

I had trouble designing the airbender... I'm not too versed in controllers, mechanically. I'm even worse, I think, with Defenders. I know the basic concept, but I worked hard to catch the mechanical side. I think I have it, but I'm also being a bit experimental with the build to facilitate a particular flavor, so I wanna pass this by the field before moving ahead.

Anyways; here are some design notes on the class's features;

Earthbender Training
This is mostly for differentiation between builds, plus some minor off-turn control. The prone bit might be too much... I'm going to change that to 'slide an enemy 1'.

Earthbending
Cantrip. Not a whole lot to this one.

Focused Resilience
This feature is here to make sure the Earthbender's AC is up to par.

The 'Steady as Stone' power is to give the Earthbender a choice. A warden can choose to go with shield for greater defense, or without to use two-handed weapons. This power allows going with a 'shield', but dropping mobility, or going without a shield and being much more mobile. I just realized, though, that a player could end the effect before a move, move, and then reactivate it. I'll just remove the 'end this effect' clause - it's part of the cost of the ability, after all.

Neutral Jing
This is the 'weirdest' part of the class; I was trying to get across the flavor of Neutral Jing, which is to say a 'wait for the right moment to strike' mentality. Hence, the EB uses his Standard to mark.

That doesn't mesh well with the action economy, though. I can't just make his powers all off-turn without causing imbalances should, say, a multiclasser get access to them, nor can I make them minor actions for the same reason. The solution was to make the offending class feature essentially be a 'pay now, reap benefits later' trade-off.

Earthen Fist is a basic 'proper primary MBA'.
Shifting ground is where the EB's stickiness comes from. Drag something next to you and ensure it stays close.

I've been considering dropping the ranges of Shifting Ground and Stay the Hand to CB 5 instead of CB 10, but I'm not sure. It's certainly much less extreme, but the EB's reduced mobility may necessitate the larger range. I dunno. I was kinda going for a 'psuedo-ranged defnder', in that he marks at range, then drags 'em close, but I don't know if this'd be too good in practice or not.

Thoughts?

 

[Mengu]

I think I see where you're going with this and I like the idea. But I see a lot of issues.

Even the skill poor paladin gets Religion + 3 skills. I don't see a good reason to limit the Earthbender to 2. Also if earthbenders are supposed to be observant, Perception goes side by side with Insight, so it should probably be on the skill list.

For Seismic Earthbender, even slide enemy 1 square is rather potent since it doesn't require an attack. I'd say too potent.

Can't help but ponder if Earthbender Training shouldn't just be encounter power.
- Lithic: Wis + half level THP
- Seismic: Knock enemy prone
- Tectonic: Slide ally Wisdom squares

Steady as Stone - I like this. If you know for sure you won't be moving more than 2 squares next turn, and have a spare minor action, you use it. You cannot get around being slowed next turn. It probably won't be used a lot, but it might be pulled out occasionally.

Shifting Ground/Stay the Hand - there has to be a better way to do this. I think maybe capturing the reactive nature of the earthbender through encounter powers may be a better way to go. But let me give it a different stab here, see if you like it.

Eye of the Earthbender
At-will * Elemental
Standard Action (once per round during your turn) Close burst 5
Target: One creature in burst
Effect: You place your Eye of the Earthbender on the target. The target is marked by you until you use this power again. You may also ready an action.

Earthbender's Punishment
At-will
Opportunity Action Close burst 5
Trigger: An enemy marked by your Eye of the Earthbender makes an attack that doesn't include you.
Target: The triggering enemy
Effect: If the target is within 2 squares of you, you may make an Earthen Fist attack against the target. Earthen Fist has a reach of Melee 2 for this attack. If the target is not within reach, you may charge the target.

Eye of the Earthbender basically puts the ball in the player's court for playing the class as intended. The player will be basically expected to ready actions to wait for opportune moments, like an enemy being flanked.

Words of caution: This wrecks action economy a bit as every readied action will move you down the initiative order, eventually causing you to skip a turn. This is where I would recommend opportunity action encounter powers be implemented. But you have to somehow make sure these are not power swappable so other classes don't gain access to them. Maybe call them feature powers rather than attack powers. Another approach may be daily stances that give opportunity actions, or maybe once per round free actions. You have to be sure not to give the class any immediate actions, even in utility powers because readied actions are immediate actions, and you don't want to step on its toes.

Also keep in mind, a reactive type character takes longer to resolve their actions, because they have to think about trigger conditions all the time.

Just throwing some ideas out there. I don't even know if any of this is necessary to capture the flavor. Some reactive encounter and daily powers may be all they need.