Elemental Planes Killed

[Geron Raveneye]

Everybody has slightly different sacred cows...interestingly, the Elemental Planes as they are right now are one for me, simply because they appear in nearly every incarnation (and most campaign settings) of D&D. The Outer Planes have looked differently from time to time, but the Big 4 were always there. They always were something of the building blocks of the Prime. I actually added the Positive and Negative Planes to Mystaran cosmology because I liked the arrangement better. Everything else can go through as many changes as they like...in the end, most DMs will create their preferred cosmology anyway, and adapt the monster stats as good as they can. But tinkering with the Elemental Planes kinda tinkers with the building blocks for the Prime.

All IMHO, of course.

 

[see]

Well, I think my initial analysis has been vindicated. An Elemental Tempest from which demons come is pretty clearly not merely a revised version of the Elemental Planes. The Elemental Planes have been killed, and something different put in their old place.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

The Elemental Planes have been killed, and something different put in their old place.

Okay.

Now: so what?

 

[Wormwood]

An Elemental Tempest from which demons come is pretty clearly not merely a revised version of the Elemental Planes. The Elemental Planes have been killed, and something different put in their old place.

This would be the part where I say "and it's about time".

 

[Sir Brennen]

Well, I think my initial analysis has been vindicated. An Elemental Tempest from which demons come is pretty clearly not merely a revised version of the Elemental Planes. The Elemental Planes have been killed, and something different put in their old place.

How do you know the Elemental Tempest isn't something like the point where the elemental planes converge?

 

[broghammerj]

Everybody has slightly different sacred cows...interestingly, the Elemental Planes as they are right now are one for me, simply because they appear in nearly every incarnation (and most campaign settings) of D&D. The Outer Planes have looked differently from time to time, but the Big 4 were always there. They always were something of the building blocks of the Prime. I actually added the Positive and Negative Planes to Mystaran cosmology because I liked the arrangement better. Everything else can go through as many changes as they like...in the end, most DMs will create their preferred cosmology anyway, and adapt the monster stats as good as they can. But tinkering with the Elemental Planes kinda tinkers with the building blocks for the Prime.

All IMHO, of course.

I threw the sacred cow around a bit but when I personally refer to sacred cows I usually mean mechanics and gameplay....Vancian magic, AC, HP, 6 abilities, etc. Some things are more canon or DND lore. Things like Vecna, elemental planes, cosmology, elves, etc. Some things are not DND lore.....Eladrins, tieflings, etc.

 

[Pale]

This would be the part where I say "and it's about time".

You're right, I've been having way too much wrong-bad-fun with the elemental planes in my gaming career. It's a good thing that it seems like they're ditching them.

Silly me.

 

[Lackhand]

If I play it differently, am I having wrong bad fun?

If I like the change and play with it, am I having wrong bad fun?

If we each play it the way we want to... will anyone notice or care?


Perspective: I maintain embedding the elemental planes into the Astral was bigger.
And stupider.
Than this.

But if you played one way, or played the other... both work!

 

[Pale]

Lackhand - I'm responding generally to the attitude I've seen from Wormwood posting on the boards. Basically, I get a vibe of general disdain towards anyone that doesn't completely like the tidbits WotC is handing out. Hence, my quoting of Wormwood specifically there.

 

[catsclaw227]

Well, I think my initial analysis has been vindicated. An Elemental Tempest from which demons come is pretty clearly not merely a revised version of the Elemental Planes. The Elemental Planes have been killed, and something different put in their old place.

"The Elemental Planes"? Wait, which cosmology are you talking about. The Great Wheel? The elemental planes touched upon in Green Ronin's Book of the Righteous? The Scarred Lands' elemental planes? Eberron's?

There's no such thing as "THE" elemental planes. If you are talking about the elemental planes in your game, then make them what they already are. If you are a Planescape buff, use the Great Wheel and adapt on the fly.

Just because WOTC wants to make some adjustments to the elemental planes as seen by the implied setting (the new implied setting, at that), then don't use them. If you are balking because the 4e MM won't be as useful for you, then don't worry. Necromancer has already called out a new 4e Tome of Horrors. And I am guessing that they will reimagine 4e Elementals, Demons and Devils to fit with the Great Wheel or FC1/FC2.