Elemental Warden class
- Thread starter Alsair
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Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
This reads way overpowered to me.
D8 HD + medium armor & shields
Warlock-like casting giving up to 9th level spells.
Proficiency in multiple "good" saves depending on path.
A bunch of small boosts plus paths that give more then evocations.
Right there you have something warlock like but somewhat more powerful. Though stealing the EK's War Magic and putting it on a class that gets 9th level spells is arguably overpowered.
But then you add the auras.
30' radius starting 1st level. Paladins get auras a lot later, and they start at 10'r.
The Elemental Warden can switch them, so you can have great flexibility. THIS for healing between encounters, this while exploring, this while fighting.
The EW ends up with up to 3 of them up.
And they are so powerful.
I really like the flavor, but this class is way off the charts in terms of power. You could strike the auras and only be somewhat overpowered, but that would be a shame because the auras are interesting.
If you struck all casting (!) and limited the aura (made it an Action to bring up, reduced the radius to 10' until higher levels, and added Concentration), you'd probably have a balanced class. Well, I'd still move Auras back to 3rd so that they aren't so ripe to be cherry-picked in games that allow multiclassing.
I hope you redo this because I like the flavor, but it's both too many good features plus some of the features are overpowered.
D8 HD + medium armor & shields
Warlock-like casting giving up to 9th level spells.
Proficiency in multiple "good" saves depending on path.
A bunch of small boosts plus paths that give more then evocations.
Right there you have something warlock like but somewhat more powerful. Though stealing the EK's War Magic and putting it on a class that gets 9th level spells is arguably overpowered.
But then you add the auras.
30' radius starting 1st level. Paladins get auras a lot later, and they start at 10'r.
The Elemental Warden can switch them, so you can have great flexibility. THIS for healing between encounters, this while exploring, this while fighting.
The EW ends up with up to 3 of them up.
And they are so powerful.
- A bonus about the same as magic items (+1 to +3) to hit, STACKING with magic items, for everyone in 30' including yourself. Or to AC. (Or both at 10th level when you get 2nd.)
- DR to everyone in 30'. Why play a Bear Totem Barbarian, this has your coolest power and gives it to the party.
- Healing up to full (not just half) that can fully heal everyone during downtime without spells or HD use.
- A damage shield for full proficiency, useful to have in your back pocket when attacked by lots of weak foes.
I really like the flavor, but this class is way off the charts in terms of power. You could strike the auras and only be somewhat overpowered, but that would be a shame because the auras are interesting.
If you struck all casting (!) and limited the aura (made it an Action to bring up, reduced the radius to 10' until higher levels, and added Concentration), you'd probably have a balanced class. Well, I'd still move Auras back to 3rd so that they aren't so ripe to be cherry-picked in games that allow multiclassing.
I hope you redo this because I like the flavor, but it's both too many good features plus some of the features are overpowered.
he dosent cast 9th lvl spells man, it cast till 5th spell level but yeah it have stronger slots but up to 4 spells per short rest and a maximun of 5th lvl spell and only one spell per long rest as extrafrom a higher spell level. it dosent say that he gains one from 6th, one from 7th and so, its says is only one and the lvl of that only one spell grows. its a half caster that rely in cantrips. half caster with medium AC and average HD is really balanced due the fighter with high AC high Hp and way more combat features. and is not steal of the war magic. i have being working on this class since 3e and the class is an hybrid combatant taht had a similiar ability
Have you read paladin auras? they are way to more powerful, they persist and the bonuses are higher, and again a paladin have a spell capability comparable to this class and have more HP, more AC and more combat bonuses. yeah maybe i have to work on some restriction like uses per long rest with WIS or the healing up to half HP
i have test this a lot by now and i can asure you is not near to overpower, is way more balanced that you think at least in low levels cuz i ahvent test it in high ones
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Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
For your recent post:
From your description of the Elemental Warden:
You explicitly give him a power to cast 9th level spells, I'm not sure how you can say he doesn't. He doesn't natively have any spells known of that level, but at the very least it's for upcasting. It is also possible to combine this with other ways to get spells known known to do some powerful things. Bardic Secrets or simply a level in wizard and then copy high level spells into your spellbook are two ways with multiclassing.
I've tried to convert some earlier edition characters who were heavy on buffing, and 5e has a very different feel betweent he lack of misc buffs from the christmas tree of items, plus much less spell buffs, concentration for maybe one per caster instead of a bunch that last from 3e. What was acceptable and even commonplace back in 3e doesn't fit the 5e paradigm. I'm glad it has pedigree, but if you want to convert it to 5e, you need to update it for that.
The paladin aura lack flexibility to change. The paladin auras don't provide full healing between encounters, or most of the effects of the heavy armor mastery feat to everyone, or break bounded accuracy either to hit or to AC for the PCs. Or again when you are maxing out with nine choices of aura and have the right aura for any situation. Diplomatic encounter, give everyone a bonus to Chr checks! Because the elemental forces makes Throg the Berserker more pretty, I guess.
Paladins get their first aura at 6th level instead of 1st, in a 10'r instead of 30'r, locked into giving Charisma to saves. Which means you need to keep boosting Chr unlike automatic advances linked to proficiency bonus. It doesn't get up to 30' until 18th level, and let me tell you that especially outdoors there is a LOAD of difference between 10'r and 30'r of you.
I'd like to give this the benefit of the doubt. But just to give strength to your claim, was that testing in 5e? You mention you've been working on this since 3e, that's a long time. Has it been tested by a group that doesn't include you? Have you told people to try and abuse it and see what they come up with?
You mention low level testing - at higher levels you get (a) more auras and (b) a higher bonus for them. That's the old linear fighter/quadratic wizard. More, higher bonuses is going to be a lot more powerful then a single, small bonus, even if that small bonus is already pretty good because a lot of people get it.
Have you tested with party synergies, where you have an aura to grant to-hit, a cleric with bless, and a bunch of characters with Sharpshooter/Great Weapon Master that now do a lot more damage on every attack with minimal downside?
Have you tested with multiclassing? Another class being able to take a single level to get two auras that go up with proficiency is nice, and a bit of multiclassing out is a good way to make better use of those high level slots.
From your description of the Elemental Warden:
You explicitly give him a power to cast 9th level spells, I'm not sure how you can say he doesn't. He doesn't natively have any spells known of that level, but at the very least it's for upcasting. It is also possible to combine this with other ways to get spells known known to do some powerful things. Bardic Secrets or simply a level in wizard and then copy high level spells into your spellbook are two ways with multiclassing.
I've tried to convert some earlier edition characters who were heavy on buffing, and 5e has a very different feel betweent he lack of misc buffs from the christmas tree of items, plus much less spell buffs, concentration for maybe one per caster instead of a bunch that last from 3e. What was acceptable and even commonplace back in 3e doesn't fit the 5e paradigm. I'm glad it has pedigree, but if you want to convert it to 5e, you need to update it for that.
The paladin aura lack flexibility to change. The paladin auras don't provide full healing between encounters, or most of the effects of the heavy armor mastery feat to everyone, or break bounded accuracy either to hit or to AC for the PCs. Or again when you are maxing out with nine choices of aura and have the right aura for any situation. Diplomatic encounter, give everyone a bonus to Chr checks! Because the elemental forces makes Throg the Berserker more pretty, I guess.
Paladins get their first aura at 6th level instead of 1st, in a 10'r instead of 30'r, locked into giving Charisma to saves. Which means you need to keep boosting Chr unlike automatic advances linked to proficiency bonus. It doesn't get up to 30' until 18th level, and let me tell you that especially outdoors there is a LOAD of difference between 10'r and 30'r of you.
I'd like to give this the benefit of the doubt. But just to give strength to your claim, was that testing in 5e? You mention you've been working on this since 3e, that's a long time. Has it been tested by a group that doesn't include you? Have you told people to try and abuse it and see what they come up with?
You mention low level testing - at higher levels you get (a) more auras and (b) a higher bonus for them. That's the old linear fighter/quadratic wizard. More, higher bonuses is going to be a lot more powerful then a single, small bonus, even if that small bonus is already pretty good because a lot of people get it.
Have you tested with party synergies, where you have an aura to grant to-hit, a cleric with bless, and a bunch of characters with Sharpshooter/Great Weapon Master that now do a lot more damage on every attack with minimal downside?
Have you tested with multiclassing? Another class being able to take a single level to get two auras that go up with proficiency is nice, and a bit of multiclassing out is a good way to make better use of those high level slots.
As not full caster and is never been tended to be, it have slow spell level know progression. i should put a restriction to that saying that those spell slots only work this class spells. is a one time use per day and you use up to level 5 spells at level 17 for it, so is not a full caster class. all tho if you can see it dosent have much features besides auras, war magic and this one
About the 3e im talking about the war magic feature. Im not removing that from the class. so im not "stealing" it from the warrior.
and there is something here. im not a D&D disigner im only a dude that did think on this concept and i came by miself and make this aura system and the spell system. i dont need criticism i need feedback and constructive opinons so i can make this better for every one taht wants to play this concept. if you can sit with me and talk about what would be nice to do im glat to that
About the 3e im talking about the war magic feature. Im not removing that from the class. so im not "stealing" it from the warrior.
and there is something here. im not a D&D disigner im only a dude that did think on this concept and i came by miself and make this aura system and the spell system. i dont need criticism i need feedback and constructive opinons so i can make this better for every one taht wants to play this concept. if you can sit with me and talk about what would be nice to do im glat to that
I have done this to an alternative for auras. What do you think?
Elemental Invocation
Elemental Wardens excel in helping their allies. At 1st level you learn to invoke elemental spirits to aid you and your companions
Invocation: You learn 2 Invocation, which are detailed under “Invocation” below. Invocation give actions or abilities that you or your allies can make in some way. You can use only one Invocation per round. At 1st level, you know two Invocation, one of which must match your chosen path element. You learn one additional Invocation at 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 20th levels, for a total of nine known. Each time you use your Elemental Invocation feature, you choose which Invocation you want to activate from the Invocations you know.
Invocation Dice: You have Invocation dice equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum 1), which are 1d6. Every time you use an Invocation you spend one of this die. An Invocation die is expended when you use it. Vou regain all of your expended Invocation dice when you finish a short or long rest. At 10th level, your invocation dice turn into d8s. At 20th level, they turn into d10s.
Invocations
Air Invocation:
Air Guiding: when you hit a creature with an attack on your turn, you can use a bonus action to guide your companions to strike. When you do so, one friendly creatures in 30 feet who can see or hear you and expend an Invocation die, that creatures can immediately use its reaction to make one weapon attack to the same target and add the Invocation die to his weapon attack
Air Shield: When a creature attempt to hit you or one of your companions, you can impose an Air Shield to you or that companion immediately as a reaction. When you do so, roll your Invocation dice and add it to your or his AC.
Quick winds: You can use air spirits to help you or one of your companions, choose one creature and give it a bonus to one dexterity base check or saving throw within 10 minutes equal to the Invocation die roll.
Earth Invocation:
Earth Nature: You can use earth spirits to help you or one of your companions, choose one creature and give it a bonus to one Constitution base check or saving throw within 10 minutes equal to the Invocation die roll.
Stone Hardening: on your turn, you can use a bonus action and spend an Invocation die to make the skin of a creature hard as rock. When you do so, choose yourself or a companion and that creature gains temporally hit points equal to your Invocation die roll.
Stone Burst: You can expend one invocation die and use a bonus action on your turn to conjure a rock, you or an ally in 30 feet choose a creature as target. You or you ally have advantage on the next attack roll against that creature, If that attack hits, add the Invocation die to the attack's damage roll.
Fire Invocation:
Fire Power: you use fire spirits to trouble a creature. The next Spell cast to the creature have bonus on the spell attack and save DC equal to the Invocation die roll
Fire immolation: you invoke a fire spirit to immolate itself to a creature when it gets damage from a spell. As a bonus action you invoke the elemental and the next spell that do damage to him until the end of your next turn get a bonus on the damage equal to the invocation roll as fire damage.
Fire presence: You can use fire spirits to help you or one of your companions, choose one creature and give it a bonus to one Charisma base check or saving throw within 10 minutes equal to the Invocation die roll.
.
Water Invocation:
Healing Effusion: You can use water elementals to heal your allies. When you do so, as an action pick a companion that you can touch or yourself and use an Invocation die. That companion can spend one of his remaining Hit Die and get a bonus equal to the Invocation die roll. You can use this only one time on the same creature per long rest. You can’t use this on a creature that doesn’t have any Hit Die left.
Water Calm: You can use water spirits to help you or one of your companions, choose one creature and give it a bonus to one Wisdom base check or saving throw within 10 minutes equal to the Invocation die roll.
Water bond: you can bond yourself to any ally in 30 feet and transfer to you damage he suffers. As a reaction when a creature in 30 feet you can see get damage, you can transfer half of that damage to yourself, subtract the result of the invocation die roll to the damage you will suffer.
Elemental Invocation
Elemental Wardens excel in helping their allies. At 1st level you learn to invoke elemental spirits to aid you and your companions
Invocation: You learn 2 Invocation, which are detailed under “Invocation” below. Invocation give actions or abilities that you or your allies can make in some way. You can use only one Invocation per round. At 1st level, you know two Invocation, one of which must match your chosen path element. You learn one additional Invocation at 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 20th levels, for a total of nine known. Each time you use your Elemental Invocation feature, you choose which Invocation you want to activate from the Invocations you know.
Invocation Dice: You have Invocation dice equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum 1), which are 1d6. Every time you use an Invocation you spend one of this die. An Invocation die is expended when you use it. Vou regain all of your expended Invocation dice when you finish a short or long rest. At 10th level, your invocation dice turn into d8s. At 20th level, they turn into d10s.
Invocations
Air Invocation:
Air Guiding: when you hit a creature with an attack on your turn, you can use a bonus action to guide your companions to strike. When you do so, one friendly creatures in 30 feet who can see or hear you and expend an Invocation die, that creatures can immediately use its reaction to make one weapon attack to the same target and add the Invocation die to his weapon attack
Air Shield: When a creature attempt to hit you or one of your companions, you can impose an Air Shield to you or that companion immediately as a reaction. When you do so, roll your Invocation dice and add it to your or his AC.
Quick winds: You can use air spirits to help you or one of your companions, choose one creature and give it a bonus to one dexterity base check or saving throw within 10 minutes equal to the Invocation die roll.
Earth Invocation:
Earth Nature: You can use earth spirits to help you or one of your companions, choose one creature and give it a bonus to one Constitution base check or saving throw within 10 minutes equal to the Invocation die roll.
Stone Hardening: on your turn, you can use a bonus action and spend an Invocation die to make the skin of a creature hard as rock. When you do so, choose yourself or a companion and that creature gains temporally hit points equal to your Invocation die roll.
Stone Burst: You can expend one invocation die and use a bonus action on your turn to conjure a rock, you or an ally in 30 feet choose a creature as target. You or you ally have advantage on the next attack roll against that creature, If that attack hits, add the Invocation die to the attack's damage roll.
Fire Invocation:
Fire Power: you use fire spirits to trouble a creature. The next Spell cast to the creature have bonus on the spell attack and save DC equal to the Invocation die roll
Fire immolation: you invoke a fire spirit to immolate itself to a creature when it gets damage from a spell. As a bonus action you invoke the elemental and the next spell that do damage to him until the end of your next turn get a bonus on the damage equal to the invocation roll as fire damage.
Fire presence: You can use fire spirits to help you or one of your companions, choose one creature and give it a bonus to one Charisma base check or saving throw within 10 minutes equal to the Invocation die roll.
.
Water Invocation:
Healing Effusion: You can use water elementals to heal your allies. When you do so, as an action pick a companion that you can touch or yourself and use an Invocation die. That companion can spend one of his remaining Hit Die and get a bonus equal to the Invocation die roll. You can use this only one time on the same creature per long rest. You can’t use this on a creature that doesn’t have any Hit Die left.
Water Calm: You can use water spirits to help you or one of your companions, choose one creature and give it a bonus to one Wisdom base check or saving throw within 10 minutes equal to the Invocation die roll.
Water bond: you can bond yourself to any ally in 30 feet and transfer to you damage he suffers. As a reaction when a creature in 30 feet you can see get damage, you can transfer half of that damage to yourself, subtract the result of the invocation die roll to the damage you will suffer.
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