[ELH] Possible New Feats

[Darkness]

Mobile Assault is really, really, really over-powered. Monks that move 90 feet per round should not be able to do a full attack in the middle of their spring attack.

First off, the pre-req on dexterity should be significantly higher -- 21+ seems correct to me -- and should also have some other pre-req (though I don't agree with Strength... sorry, Darkness, but this is definitely a "quick movement" type of feat IMO).

Oops - of course it's Dex! Dunno why I wrote Str...

 

[Marshall]

Well, then maybe this feat isn't for that type of character? It doesn't screw them, it's not designed for them. Epic feats aren'tr for everybody, they are for the person that qualifies. There are plenty of other feats out there.

Ah! But the feat is designed for all FTR types, not just the super mobility types. Hence the low attribute requirements. A DEX of 20+ is near impossible(or just takes a really long time) to get unless you're designed with high DEX being the goal. This feat is supposed to help close the gap between the Epic Wizard and Epic FTR types that the RAW ELH made into the Grand Canyon.

I choose run, since it involves movement and so does the new feat. Also run is a weaker feat, thus perfect for a requirement. Blinding Speed would be a great adition. Epic Dodge doesn't fit what the new feat does. The fact that it is not a fighter feat is not important. The system is made for multi classing.

Victim pointed to the perfect solution(Thanks V! ) Dire Charge fits the bill perfectly. You could choose run, but the way I envision the feat is to let you maneuver without losing the extra attacks. IE a "5' step" that is an MEA long. Running isn't necessarily part of it. And besides also having to waste a feat on ImpInit is a HUGE penalty.

 

[wolff96]

See Auto-Quicken and Multispell for Wizards/SOR/CLR.....
A Wizard throwing 5+ 9th level spells a round is OK, but a FTR gaining a 5th attack at -20 is overpowered?!?

Yes to both feats.

For a very simple reason -- the fighter can do it all day long. A wizard using Auto-Quicken and throwing 5+ high level spells per round is going to be out of spells within the first couple of rounds. Not to mention that you have to be very high level to get that ability; 5+ 9th level spells a round requires three epic Auto-Quickens and five epic multispells. EIGHT epic feats.

Your fighter feat, as written, requires ONE. See where I'm going with this?

All it would take is the fighter -- using his umpteen trillion gold -- to invest in a movement item and a Dimensional Anchor item. Bingo... one dead wizard after five or six rounds. All you need is some magical protection to survive the first couple of rounds.

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I think adding Dire Charge to the pre-reqs and significantly increasing the Dex requirement makes the Mobile Assault feat work.

I don't think anything will ever make me feel the Improved Attack Capacity is balanced -- if everyone takes a feat, it's broken. And EVERY melee-type would take IAC. Not every wizard takes Automatic Quicken Spell and massive amounts of Multispell... some want to survive more than one fight per day.

 

[Marshall]

Yes to both feats.

For a very simple reason -- the fighter can do it all day long.

No. He cant. What is it, CON rounds before he gets tired? Its an urban myth that the FTR types 'can go all day long'.

Your fighter feat, as written, requires ONE. See where I'm going with this?

Sure and he only gains one additional attack at a -20 'bonus' with the option to gain another(at an additional -5) every ten levels.

All it would take is the fighter -- using his umpteen trillion gold -- to invest in a movement item and a Dimensional Anchor item. Bingo... one dead wizard after five or six rounds. All you need is some magical protection to survive the first couple of rounds.

and the Wizard drops an MD followed by a couple Horrid Wiltings, Meteors Swarms, PW:Kill and then sees whats left on the FTR.

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I think adding Dire Charge to the pre-reqs and significantly increasing the Dex requirement makes the Mobile Assault feat work.

Why the DEX? Why penalize a Paladin or FTR who went the STR/CON route?

I don't think anything will ever make me feel the Improved Attack Capacity is balanced -- if everyone takes a feat, it's broken. And EVERY melee-type would take IAC. Not every wizard takes Automatic Quicken Spell and massive amounts of Multispell... some want to survive more than one fight per day.

Every WIZ will go with ISC
Every WIZ will eventually go auto-quicken/multispell
Every FTR will take Armor Skin
Every FTR will take EWF

That argument is nonsense.

 

[Crothian]

No. He cant. What is it, CON rounds before he gets tired? Its an urban myth that the FTR types 'can go all day long'.
[/B]

I'm not familair with that rule, can you site it?

 

[Mordane76]

Marshall, if you wanted feedback on your feats (as I assumed you did, since you posted them in the forum), you shouldn't sound so upset when people criticize your work. I'll agree -- every wizard will pick up ISC; it's more or less the core of the epic wizard, other than Epic Spellcasting. I don't necessarily think every wizard will go auto-quicken and multispell; every war wizard will go auto-quicken and multispell, but assuming that every wizard will maximize themselves for combat is to overlook the plethora of other options that wizards have available once they reach Epic Level.

And have you stopped to think about combining your two feats? If you have Improved Attack Capacity and Mobile Assault together, what will ANYONE on the battlefield do, other than get cut down by either the cuisinart fighter or the bludgeon-happy monk? BAB doesn't increase after Lv20, anyway, so did you mean to make the prereq Epic Attack Bonus? To allow for such a monumental feat, I think that other prereqs besides EAB are necessary, and I agree with Ias -- it probably shouldn't be allowed to stack. If you're going to let it stack with itself, it has to be something ridiculous in the incremental increase, because every Ftr, Pal, Mnk, and Rgr worth their salt will be purchasing it every chance they get. I know, if I had a Ftr and I could chose been Armor Skin, or a chance to swing my ungodly epic-level weapon one more time in a round, I'd be swinging, and swinging, and swinging...

But, then again, you might not be worried about this in your home campaign. But you have to remember that a lot of people are looking for ideas on these boards, and while they might like the idea you propose in theory, the execution you've laid out leaves much to be desired for them. If it works for your players and you, then good! Have you playtested the mechanic you've laid out?

 

[FireLance]

For what it's worth, I think Calculated Rage doesn't need to be epic. I might even bump up the power a little to allow you to use Expertise while raging (although the image of a barbarian raging defensively is kind of silly).

I think Improved Attack Capacity is fine. Seriously, if you're actually able to hit something at -20 (-25, -30, yada yada) to your attack roll, you don't really need the feat to steamroller the poor thing.

I do think Mobile Assault is overpowered, especially if it's an "always on" ability. Might be OK if you limited it to 1+Con Bonus times per day or something.

 

[Marshall]

I'm not familair with that rule, can you site it?

Oops, House rule. Tho as a natural extension of the RUN rule....
Combat is a 'physical action that extends over a period of time'

 

[Marshall]

Marshall, if you wanted feedback on your feats (as I assumed you did, since you posted them in the forum), you shouldn't sound so upset when people criticize your work.

Sorry if I sound upset, But just saying "OVERPOWERED" gets on my nerves. I am looking for more ideas about MA, but DEX 25+ goes entirely against the concept.

I'll agree -- every wizard will pick up ISC; it's more or less the core of the epic wizard, other than Epic Spellcasting. I don't necessarily think every wizard will go auto-quicken and multispell; every war wizard will go auto-quicken and multispell, but assuming that every wizard will maximize themselves for combat is to overlook the plethora of other options that wizards have available once they reach Epic Level.

Auto-Q and Multispell arent just for War Wizards anymore.... Seriously Every Major Spellcaster will eventually go with these feats, its just too usefull to be able to pop-off a couple spells a round without losing high-level slots. Admittedly it will take some 'casters longer to get there than others.

And have you stopped to think about combining your two feats? If you have Improved Attack Capacity and Mobile Assault together, what will ANYONE on the battlefield do, other than get cut down by either the cuisinart fighter or the bludgeon-happy monk?

They'll have to pay attention to them? Work to avoid them? Not just ignore the ELH left-behinds....

BAB doesn't increase after Lv20, anyway, so did you mean to make the prereq Epic Attack Bonus? To allow for such a monumental feat, I think that other prereqs besides EAB are necessary, and I agree with Ias -- it probably shouldn't be allowed to stack.

Theres no difference between BAB and EAB for feat purposes.
And look at the stacking this way :
BAB 21 at 21st level is 5 attacks
BAB 26 doesnt arrive until 31st level for 6 attacks(with 2 feats) last at -25
BAB 31 - 41st level - 7 attacks(3 feats) at -30
BAB 36 - 51st level - 8 attacks(4 feats) at -35
BAB 41 - 61st level - 9 attacks(5 feats) at -40
BAB 46 - 71st level - 10 attacks(6 feats) at -45

If you're going to let it stack with itself, it has to be something ridiculous in the incremental increase, because every Ftr, Pal, Mnk, and Rgr worth their salt will be purchasing it every chance they get. I know, if I had a Ftr and I could chose been Armor Skin, or a chance to swing my ungodly epic-level weapon one more time in a round, I'd be swinging, and swinging, and swinging...

But, then again, you might not be worried about this in your home campaign. But you have to remember that a lot of people are looking for ideas on these boards, and while they might like the idea you propose in theory, the execution you've laid out leaves much to be desired for them. If it works for your players and you, then good! Have you playtested the mechanic you've laid out?

Compare a 71st level fighter type with a 71st level spellcaster using the RAW ELH. The FTR doesnt stand a rats chance in H-E-Double Hockeysticks. Why? He gets, at best, 1 attack a round, if he can move within range. While any spellhurler worth his salt is going to be peppering him with multiple spells, throwing in a crossbow shot or a thrown weapon and still getting an MEA. And thats not even a combat focused caster.

Now throw in my feats, The fighter type always has his best attack available and it actually gets, at least a little, better every ten levels. Look at IAC more like the Enhance spell metamagic than ISC.

 

[las]

The fighter can always get a belt of Epic SR.

With the raw ELH they have feats like overwhelming Critimproved whirlwind attack and the one that can stop spell casters if the get a good hit (with out killing there target) Spellcasting Harrier. They dont get the shaft they gust get slower the the casters.