Elminster? Really? Why is he so popular?

[DnD_Dad]

I like Elminster... pause, catch your breath, ease the flame in your heart. Ok. Here's why. Elminster is Greenwood's flagship character an no matter what happens in his world(the realms) nothing will change his love for his character that he wrote hundreds of pages of backstory for. Think about your favorite character and what you would feel for it after writing novels about it. He is the pinnacle of what all of our favorite characters aspire to. Shaper of worlds, seducer of gods, and master of every situation. Greenwood has a lot of himself invested in his character and his world and I respect that. Now would I go the way he did specifically with his character and the realms, no I wouldn't, but I would give anything to sit and play a game with the man and relish the moment he brought El into the game.

 

[S'mon]

I like Elminster... pause, catch your breath, ease the flame in your heart. Ok. Here's why. Elminster is Greenwood's flagship character an no matter what happens in his world(the realms) nothing will change his love for his character that he wrote hundreds of pages of backstory for. Think about your favorite character and what you would feel for it after writing novels about it. He is the pinnacle of what all of our favorite characters aspire to.

I don't have favourite characters like that - not even PCs, never mind GMPCs, so I can't really understand this mindset. I don't like GMPCs at all, never mind Mary Sue types, and I've never used Elminster etc. I do like the Realms, but I like the PCs to be the most important thing in the game.

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

I once began a Realms game where the characters began in Shadowdell and were gathering for a town event of some kind when a magical storm came to the area... there was a lightning strike the size of a small comet... and Elminsters house was obliterated.

When they explored the ruins... they found his arm... then a leg... then part of his head with hat attached.

It was my was of letting the players know that this was no typical Realms.

And I got rid of Elminster. Somebody had to, even if how I did it wouldn't have been enough. I'm not a big fan of him.

 

[Ulrick]

I once began a Realms game where the characters began in Shadowdell and were gathering for a town event of some kind when a magical storm came to the area... there was a lightning strike the size of a small comet... and Elminsters house was obliterated.

When they explored the ruins... they found his arm... then a leg... then part of his head with hat attached.

It was my was of letting the players know that this was no typical Realms.

And I got rid of Elminster. Somebody had to, even if how I did it wouldn't have been enough. I'm not a big fan of him.

That's it! That's The Sundering!

Elminster was SUNDERED into pieces. He is finally dead, and what you did is enough--at the heart of the strike was a sphere of annihilation. And on top of that, Elminster was well beyond his natural age when he died. No resurrection.

I hereby declare that scenario to be official Forgotten Realms canon. Anything else, even stuff written by Ed Greenwood, is considered at best, fan fiction, or at worst, "Expanded Universe."

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, I have no problems with him as part of a line of novels, or actually as a character in a campaign setting.

Just do not have him show up in modules and the like and I am pretty happy.

For sure, he will not make an appearance in my games.

 

[evildmguy]

People like different things, news at 11.

Seriously? That's what you wanted to add to this conversation?

I mean, it's not just that people want different things. It's that people want different things at different times. What works for someone as a new DM doesn't work for them later. It's my understanding that Ed used Elminster to get people started on a mission and then left them to it. Nothing wrong with that and if it gives a DM, any DM, more ideas, great.

Twenty years ago, I loved Driz'zt and would defend Salvatore. Now? Not so much. To me, he hasn't aged well. Or he's writing the same way, which works for most people, but doesn't work for me anymore.

So, to me, this thread is about why we did or did not like Elminster, or Driz'zt, and what we did or do about them. Ideas that we used that maybe someone else will use.

And, yes, in the 3E FRCS, page 5 was Elminster. That was the point. He was the front man for the Realms. I don't think that was popularity; that was Ed using his alter ego to introduce the Realms. Name for me the front man of Greyhawk, or DragonLance or any other published world? I can't think of any but would love to hear what people think! So, yes, if you have a front man, be it Ed or Elminster, they are going to use him. Why wouldn't they?

I get that some people don't want to change things like Stacie GmrGrl did below. I have as well but it's not for everyone. And there are lots of reasons for and against it.

However, if you have ever seen Ed play Elminster? You would understand. In person, the man is very impressive and a lot of fun!

 

[Desdichado]

So, to me, this thread is about why we did or did not like Elminster, or Driz'zt, and what we did or do about them. Ideas that we used that maybe someone else will use.

Well regardless of what is is about "to you", that actually is what the thread is about. The thread title prominently says so. As did the original poster. As does all of the content in the thread.

???

 

[Therise]

I don't mind Elminster, really. As a kid, I loved those old Elminster "Pages from the Mages" articles way, way back in Dragon magazine. And the 1E version of the Realms was one of the best gaming products I ever bought.

But as Elminster has grown, he's become less and less interesting to me, not more. Same with the Realms, generally. I departed from canon with the Time of Troubles, because I really didn't like the way that whole event played out in the Realms. The concept of gods walking the Earth was cool, but the execution of it in novels was IMO really terrible. So my Realms diverged and has kept on diverging.

Elminster and the major NPCs became more and more Mary Sue-ish. I loved the thousands of "little guy" NPCs in the Realms, and the general region-specific lore that developed during 2E, but the increasing number of RSEs and power bloat of the major NPCs wasn't something I was interested in.

Then 4E happened, and all the regional lore I really loved was wiped mostly clean. All the "little guy" NPCs were dead as a result of the 100-year gap, or murdered by the spellplague. Everything I liked about the Realms was no longer to be found in the 4E Realms. And yet, the powerhouse NPCs that I never used, like Elminster and Drizzt, the Simbul and Storm, they were still alive and kicking.

With the new announcements that they'll just be moving forward in 5E, building on the husk of 4E rather than doing a reboot, I find that I'm really no longer interested in the Realms. Elminster will recover his power lost in 4E, have no doubt. They'll do another massive RSE (word is that they're going to split Abeir and Toril, and the overgod AO will reforge the Tablets of Fate that were so prominently part of the 2E Time of Troubles), and the Realms will "morph" according to AO's wishes.

But that massive host of "little guy" regional NPCs that were lovingly developed during 1E-2E, they'll still be gone. And I honestly don't want to wait another 20+ years to build up another set of regional NPCs to give the Realms that wonderful and rich flavor it used to have. Sure, Elminster and Drizzt will always be there, but they were never what defined the Realms for me in my games.

So although I have nostalgia and love for the Realms I grew up with as a young girl, I don't see anything really in 4E or their announced plans for 5E that grabs me at all.

Time for me to find something new... I wish, honestly, that WotC had decided to revive Greyhawk for the launch of 5E rather than pump out yet another new version of the Realms.

 

[evildmguy]

Well regardless of what is is about "to you", that actually is what the thread is about. The thread title prominently says so. As did the original poster. As does all of the content in the thread.

???

Wow. So you seem to be questioning what I said yet pointing out that what I said agrees exactly with the OP?

And just as everything is imo, as that's the only opinion I know, everything is also "to me" as well because that's also the only way I can answer anything.

But I'm glad you cleared that up. Thanks!

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I was thinking it would actually be nice to see Mystara/The Known World brought out and overhauled for 5e. I think you could keep most of the concepts, but still break it down and overhaul it into a "PoL" setting (ie, maybe Glantri isn't a country, but just a city...). It's certainly got room for anything they want to throw in there.

And Bring back the Hollow world inside too!