Level Up (A5E) Embody Fiendish Spirit question on save DC

[Verall]

The spell has you make wisdom saves, any idea what the DC of those would be?

“When you act against the spirit’s nature, or at the Narrator’s discretion, you must make a Wisdom Saving throw to resist these compulsions.”

The spell is in GPG 30, pg 23.

 

[Morrus]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but spell saves are usually against the caster's spell scale DC.

 

[Verall]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but spell saves are usually against the caster's spell scale DC.

Thanks for the response, in this instance I would be the caster, the spirit does not have a stat block.
I’d post the spell here but that feels a bit cheeky.

 

[Morrus]

Well unless the spell specifies otherwise, it’ll be the usual rule for spell save DCs.

 

[Verall]

I’m not really following you sorry, my best guess is there’s a section of the spell block missing?
I’m not really sure why the spell would force me to make a save against my own DC otherwise.
Here’s the text block at the top if that helps.
I’m trying not to post the whole thing, however if it would be ok to do so I will (You’d be the guy to ask on that)

“Embody Fiendish Spirit 3rd-level (conjuration; arcane, chaos, enhancement, evil, law) Classes: Warlock, wizard Casting Time: 1 hour, ritual Target: Self Components: V, S, M (100 gold worth of salts and oils you must paint yourself with as part of the casting) Duration: Until dispelled Saving Throw: Charisma (special)”

I

 

[Morrus]

Sure just post it. I don't have it to hand and have no idea what spell does, and guesswork isn't working!

 

[Verall]

Sure just post it. I don't have it to hand and have no idea what spell does, and guesswork isn't working!

Embody Fiendish Spirit 3rd-level (conjuration; arcane, chaos, enhancement, evil, law) Classes: Warlock, wizard Casting Time: 1 hour, ritual Target: Self Components: V, S, M (100 gold worth of salts and oils you must paint yourself with as part of the casting) Duration: Until dispelled Saving Throw: Charisma (special) You invite a fiend to temporarily inhabit your body, letting you draw on its knowledge. You gain an expertise die on ability checks relating to knowledge about fiends and their native planes, as well as two skills determined by the type of fiend you choose. You radiate the same alignment aura as the spirit, and count as having its creature type in addition to your own. The spell ends if you are successfully targeted by an effect which would return the spirit to its native plane, or end its possession of a creature. You feel a compulsion to act in line with the nature and alignment of the spirit. When you act against the spirit’s nature, or at the Narrator’s discretion, you must make a Wisdom Saving throw to resist these compulsions. Additionally, after speaking with a creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher for at least a minute, you can force them to make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, you learn secret information you can use to manipulate them. Choose one of the following options. Infernal Cunning (devil; Lawful Evil): You gain expertise on Persuasion and Insight checks. On a failed save, you learn something the creature desires. Fiendish Terror (fiend; Neutral Evil): You gain an expertise die on Intimidation and Stealth checks. On a failed save, you learn something the creature fears. Abyssal Wrath (demon; Chaotic Evil): You gain expertise on Athletics and Deception checks. On a failed save, you learn something that would make the creature lose their temper.

 

[lichmaster]

Embody Fiendish Spirit 3rd-level (conjuration; arcane, chaos, enhancement, evil, law) Classes: Warlock, wizard Casting Time: 1 hour, ritual Target: Self Components: V, S, M (100 gold worth of salts and oils you must paint yourself with as part of the casting) Duration: Until dispelled Saving Throw: Charisma (special) You invite a fiend to temporarily inhabit your body, letting you draw on its knowledge. You gain an expertise die on ability checks relating to knowledge about fiends and their native planes, as well as two skills determined by the type of fiend you choose. You radiate the same alignment aura as the spirit, and count as having its creature type in addition to your own. The spell ends if you are successfully targeted by an effect which would return the spirit to its native plane, or end its possession of a creature. You feel a compulsion to act in line with the nature and alignment of the spirit. When you act against the spirit’s nature, or at the Narrator’s discretion, you must make a Wisdom Saving throw to resist these compulsions. Additionally, after speaking with a creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher for at least a minute, you can force them to make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, you learn secret information you can use to manipulate them. Choose one of the following options. Infernal Cunning (devil; Lawful Evil): You gain expertise on Persuasion and Insight checks. On a failed save, you learn something the creature desires. Fiendish Terror (fiend; Neutral Evil): You gain an expertise die on Intimidation and Stealth checks. On a failed save, you learn something the creature fears. Abyssal Wrath (demon; Chaotic Evil): You gain expertise on Athletics and Deception checks. On a failed save, you learn something that would make the creature lose their temper.

Yes, as written there's a hole IMO. It doesn't make sense for you to roll a save against your own DC. Since you're acting against the spirit's will it would make more sense to roll against some DC depending on it's proficiency and probably Cha mod.
I'd guess such a creature could have between +2 and +3 proficiency and +2 to +5 Cha mod, for a DC range from 12 to 16.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Yes, as written there's a hole IMO. It doesn't make sense for you to roll a save against your own DC. Since you're acting against the spirit's will it would make more sense to roll against some DC depending on it's proficiency and probably Cha mod.
I'd guess such a creature could have between +2 and +3 proficiency and +2 to +5 Cha mod, for a DC range from 12 to 16.

i mean, i guess you could argue that as you grow in power you attract more and more powerful spirits, but then i'd say that should be tied to upcasting and should come with more benefits (surely a more powerful spirit would be able to do more for you, no?).

 

[Verall]

I’m glad you can all see the hole as well!
I’ll talk the DM and work out a short term solution while I await some errata!