Embracing the D&Disms

[Desdichado]

I think we have drifted waaaaay far from Quasqueton's original point, which was that he, as a DM, has decided to embrace the D&Disms and allow his players to revel in their powerful spells and abilities. I don't think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Quasqueton wanted this thread to turn into a debate over whether teleportation circle is overpowered or not. I also don't think this is supposed to be a thread about how to recreate your campaign world from the ground up to take into account the prevalence of magic. I think the point is that D&D is structured so that the PCs become powerful and use their abilities against increasingly powerful foes.

Actually, he did specifically mention working the campaign world up to account for the prevalence of magic. It's been a common point of discussion ever since the thread started.

To me, that's really the heart of the matter. That's the main reason lots of folks don't embrace the D&Disms of D&D. If you don't want to discuss that, then there's not much to talk about.

 

[Li Shenron]

How many other DMs here have taken the core D&D concepts and extrapolated the results to their campaign world?

I have to say that I never wanted very much to make spellcasting have an effect for example on the world technology. I always preferred to keep magic-users a rare thing in the world (not to mention high-level magic users!), and magic in general something which was only recently discovered, or rather still under investigation

 

[Shallown]

I think a big part of keeping magic from being a technology substitue is to keep it uncommon and scary to the everyday person. I think part of building up the campaign embracing the D&Dism's is by making magic of that power something feared and misunderstood bythe common man. I'm sure when players get to a certain level and knowledge that what they do is very common but reintroducing how alien that level of power is to the common person helps re-ground the characters.

Imagine a character who teleports home to find that his poor farmer dad was recently killed by a wild boar while he was hunting. So the character now calls his freind cleric to raise his dad. Does mom think this is blasphemy? Does it scare the heck out her that her son has that sort of power? (even if indirect)

Part of technology is that it eventually becomes accepted by the common man. I think keeping magic and divine power as something seperate and frightening to the common person is part of accepting the D&D part of the world but still keeping it Fantasy/medeival.

I think there is a middle ground of planning for mid to high level power in a campaign that let's the players use those abilities and still keep it medieval/fantasy.

Planning for the Campaign to be at that point is important, embracing those difficult, at times, spells is part of the game. I think that the magic need not be so prevalent it alters the world for the common man but instead does affect the higher end of power.

To put it in modern terms I don't worry about the exchange rate of french to american money is or what the weather is in Paris today cause ain't much way in heck I am going anytime soon but someone who is a CEO of a cooperation may becuase he may need to fly their today for a business meeting. Two different worlds that both exist without one making the other unbeleivable.

Build the campaign around both those elements and I think D&Dism's can easily be worked in without making the world too alien to the basic, recognizable ideas of fantasy and medieval worlds.

Just my thoughts.

Later

 

[Quasqueton]

Take your pick. I'll talk about any of them.

Let's look at divination spells.

Divinations:
1st-level caster

Detect Poison - We have ways in the Real World of detecting poison easily enough, but people still get poisoned. Heck, most poison is *labeled* as such, but people still get poisoned.

Detect Magic - The PCs in my campaign just did a detect magic on a rampaging treant and learned that he has 5 bestow curse spells and 1 command plants spell on him, but this didn't "ruin" the encounter and adventure. In fact, I was expecting/counting on them finding out this information.

Detect Evil - Considering that [arguably] a third of all humans could be evil aligned, this doesn't solve any mysteries or convict any criminals. If a campaign mystery is held together by a fragile veil of not knowing who the one evil guy is in the crowd, then the DM's mystery skills are very weak.


3rd-level caster

Augury - An 75% chance to know weal or woe about an action in the next 30 mins? Not *real* useful as a dependable tool.

Detect Thoughts - Needs 3 rounds (~18 seconds) minimum of concentration on the subject (area), and the subject gets a Will save. I've witnessed this spell used often in actual game play, and it is not mystery-breaking. Surface thoughts are not "the plot, method, and intentions" of an individual.

Locate Object - A range of ~500' is not useful unless the caster is already pretty much right on top of what he is looking for. To look for a specific item, the caster must have already seen it -- not real useful for finding the McGuffin in the Deadly Dungeon. And a thin sheet of lead blocks it -- and most *all* divinations. Lead coatings should be standard for lockboxes, vaults, and most sensitive areas.


5th-level caster

Clairvoyance - Again, a range of ~500' is pretty limiting. You could just as easily send in the rogue to look around.

Speak With Dead - No more real effective than a modern-day autopsy, but less effective if the creature is a different alignment than the caster - gets a Will save.

Tongues - I wonder how just about every species knows the Common tongue? Might have something to do with this spell. I had an adventure that *required* the PCs have this spell or comprehend languages to "solve" it. In another adventure, two PCs actually spent skill points in a new language even though two other PCs had tongues usually prepared -- knowing the language always is better than knowing it for an hour.


7th-level caster

Discern Lies - We have lie detectors in the Real World, but that hasn't put a stop to deceipt and fraud. This would be used often in important D&D court cases, but 7th-level casters are not common.

Divination - An 82% for a short phrase or cryptic rhyme/omen on something within one week. Could help some planning, but definitely won't solve problems or reveal sure answers.

Locate Creature - See locate object above. Plus this can be foiled by mislead, nondetection, polymorph, and even running water.

Scrying - With the Will save for the target, this is not easily done on BBEGs. The PCs in my campaign were recently requested to sneak into a BBEG's lair and get a "body part" (leaf of an elder treant) so the BBGGs could scry on the BBEG. This adventure *relied* on a D&Dism as its purpose. Plus the PCs had to *teleport* into and out of the dungeon -- hows that for using D&Disms to make the adventure?.


9th-level caster

Commune - 9 yes or no answers. D&D dieties are not omniscient, and they don't know things that don't exist (printing press?). There are a number of story hours on this board that show commune often leads to more questions than really confirm any answers. The PCs in my campaign once had a magic item that would answer 3 yes or no questions per day, but they rarely knew just what questions to ask.

Contact Other Plane - A very complicated, risky, and unpredictable spell.


11th-level caster

Legend Lore - Days to weeks to cast.


13th-level caster

Greater Scrying - As scrying above, just lasts longer.


15th-level caster

Discern Location - To find a creature, you must have seen it or have some item that belongs to it. To find an item, you must have touched it. Not to mention *15th-level caster*! And knowing a creature/objects "location (place, name, business name, building name, or the like), community, county (or similar political division), country, continent, and the plane of existence" is not really exact enough to teleport directly to him. Plus a mind blank blocks it for 24 hours.

So, I don't really see a game-breaking or mystery-breaking problem with any of the common divination spells. If the mystery is as simple as "the butler did it", or the BBEG always hangs out in his throne room waiting for the PCs to scry/locate him, then the DM needs to put a little more thought into the game.

Quasqueton

 

[dren]

Confession: I'm a spell nerfer. Yes, I admit it. For example:

Raise dead - cast only at a church.
Teleport: only between teleport pads. The fifth level spell requires you to make the circle, an hour of preparation.
Commune & Resurrect: Unless it's really important, don't ask your god for anything...he already gives you your spells, don't annoy him.

Why do I do these things?

1. Flavour: I use a low magic & low wealth system, some of these spells, potentially ruin the atmosphere I'm trying to create.

2. It also makes it more fun for the players. Giving them access to something like teleport, well it ruins half the fun. Getting to your location, is where 1/3 or more of my encounters happen. Truly random encounters...are great.
But so are mistaken identities, and if always know where and who your enemy is, well a lot of the game play of travelling around asking questions and investigations. It's like using google in modern times vs the psedudo medieval time frame when books were rare, let alone scholars.

3. At higher levels, these spells can break a campagin, not because the PCs have the spells but if even medium high wizards can teleport to the land that time forgot...it wouldn't be heroic to go there and back because every wizard worth his pointy little hat has already been there and brought back t-shirts.

4. There's a reason why fighters, rogues & monks exist. Magic can't be so incredibly powerful, that the wizard in the party can accomplish everything.

5. Control. If it's easier for me to create a good game scenario, without players using 1 or 2 spells to take away the point of the adventure, yeah, I'll do it in a second.

This is a fine balance act. You take away too much, and you are railroading the group as they can only do one thing to accomplish the mission. But, if you don't have certain spells, and it helps you with a plot point - great.

I will add a caveat on this one, don't overuse any one technique. Never being able to teleport, raise dead or scry, for exampl,e also makes these spells useless, and that's unfair for the player.

 

[Mac Callum]

So, how can we come up with adventures that, rather than being thwarted by teleportation circle, depend upon it?

Absolutely. This kind of stuff is critical to making the PCs really feel excited about their accumulation of power. It doesn't have to wait until you get 9th level spells either.

When my PC who was playing a Wizard chose Resist Energy at 4th level (just a 2nd level spell), I dropped a creature into the quest that was way too high a CR for the party normally, but I dropped hints ahead of time that it used all Cold spells. She used every 2nd level slot and a couple scrolls to cover the entire party and they did just fine.

Part of technology is that it eventually becomes accepted by the common man. I think keeping magic and divine power as something seperate and frightening to the common person is part of accepting the D&D part of the world but still keeping it Fantasy/medeival.

I think there is a middle ground of planning for mid to high level power in a campaign that let's the players use those abilities and still keep it medieval/fantasy.

Perhaps it's a failure of my imagination, but I just can't imagine a world where dragons and demons walk the earth and anyone with a slightly above-average personality, IQ or insight (or any average person now Middle Aged) can master basic spells of arcane or divine nature retaining this fear of the 'unknown.' Quite the contrary, it seems it would be quite common.

There are game systems that make magic rare and weird, but the D&D rules are setup such that 83.5% of the ECL +0 race-populations qualify for the prerequisites of some kind of spellcasting. (That's a real number - only 17.5% of the population would have a 9 or less in all three spellcasting stats.) You could say that Wizardly training is hard to come by, but all Adepts, Clerics and Druids need is faith, and all Sorcerers need is talent. Those are free and, according to the rules, abundant.

According to the rules, a human born with a spellcasting stat of 10 will get +3 to that stat through aging and maturity, and up to 5 points through level advancement. This pretty much guarantees that anyone of a certain age & experience has the stats required to cast spells of the appropriate levels. Spells up to 3rd should be quite common - by a straight interpretation of the rules.

This also explains how wimpy, no stat bonus, no inherant spellcasting humans even survive as a species in a world populated by magical monsters.

Yeah, it's not 'fantasy' or 'Arthurian' or 'Medieval', but as others have mentioned, D&D isn't designed to do those things. It's a category unto itself, which is exactly what I read from Quasqueton's first post. I was just trying to explore that.

To put it in modern terms I don't worry about the exchange rate of french to american money is or what the weather is in Paris today cause ain't much way in heck I am going anytime soon but someone who is a CEO of a cooperation may becuase he may need to fly their today for a business meeting. Two different worlds that both exist without one making the other unbeleivable.

You may not care about the weather in France, but if you appreciate wine or cheese (to pick two stereotyped examples) you'll care next summer what France's weather was today. Things happening far away will affect the prices in your local grocer. In a world with Teleport Circle Emporor Zirg's Ogre legions (made up referance to avoid FR referances) could have spread out to the entire world. Some peasants won't care about that fact - but some will.

 

[Quasqueton]

In a world with Teleport Circle Emporor Zirg's Ogre legions (made up referance to avoid FR referances) could have spread out to the entire world. Some peasants won't care about that fact - but some will.

But, of course, if Emporer Zirg has an 18th-level mage on staff, surely the Good King Rex has one too.

In the "Real World", Nation X has satellites, ships, and planes to be able to send many troops to any spot in the world within a few hours. Hell, Nation Y could drop nuclear devastation anywhere in the world within minutes. Nation Z could drop commandos on some capital building in the middle of the night.

Why doesn't Nation X, Y, or Z take over the world? Because Nation A, and Nation B, and Nation C also have similar capabilities.

In a D&D world, just like the Real World, magic/technology does not exist in a vacuum. One kingdom/nation doesn't usually have a real strong advantage for very long.

Just like when D&D armies clash - sure a high-level mage could wipe out the grunts with a handful of area affecting spells, but the other army also has high-level mages of their own to deal with the enemy "artillery". Mages don't evolve in one kingdom only, just like jet fighters and bombers don't [usually] only exist in one nation in the Real World.

Too often in these discussions, those who think magic is over-balancing or game-breaking forget that *all* sides in the campaign world have access to the same magic.

Quasqueton

 

[Silverglass]

Careful, Quasqueton – this rabbit hole is far deeper than you imagine.

Just a very few spells (and the ability to make magical items) change the fundamental aspects of how society works so completely that it doesn’t take too many high-level spellcasters to make a world completely unrecognizable to most fantasy readers.

While there are far-reaching effects the impacts should be much smaller than you postulate because of the limitations of the spells.

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to rebut each invalid point.

In no particular order …

Teleport/ Teleport Without Error/ Teleportation Circle <snip>.

As a method of mass movement Teleportation circle is inefficient. Either it lasts about 3 hours or it costs 4,500xp to make permanent (and there will always be a limited number of 17th level Wizards). It is 10ft across which means that best you are limited to the amount of people/transports that can cross per round. Its also easy to block by putting any large solid object at the destination. As it rises from teleport it is possible that the circle has a limit of 1+1/3 caster level medium creatures a round (based on it “activating” and doing a greater teleport). Even so with soldiers literally running through the maximum rate round be about 500 people a round (based on 60ft movement) but I don’t really think you could use it this way without a massive pileup at the other end.
Although you could use it to move thousands of troops to a location there is then the small problem of also moving enough supplies for these thousands of troops. Troops need food and water, ammunition and the like and all this needs transport. So you would be adding in wagons and people to drive them. Unfortunately telepoort circles are not activated by objects and teleport (which the spell is based on) only allows creatures "carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load". So no wagons only supplies carried by porters of pack animals.

And as soon as the army moves away you have a supply line that can be cut unless you recast a circle into the camp every time you want to resupply.

Boats and wagons allow you to move large weights of good efficiently so would always be a viable option. The sheer cost of creating a pairs of permanent teleportation circles means that it would not be viable except between very important locations. And you would still need ships and wagons to pull all the goods in to the central point and distribute them out again. So Teleport Circles would replace the major long distance trade routes and then act as a nexus for local trade routes. Try working out the logistics of moving enough grain into a major city to feed the populace, a lot of wagons will be involved.

Fortresses would not be useless, the purpose of a fortress is to allow control of an area. Build Fortresses and link them with Teleport Circles and a government has a very good defensive network to command invasion routes. And if you preposition supplies in fortresses the defender can move troops around quickly to respond to invasions. So its an advantage to the defence.

Zone of Truth/ Detect Thoughts/ Dominate Person –<snip>.

All mind-affecting compulsions that allow Will saves. Thus they can be defended against using other spells or saved against. So they are useful in checking people’s truthfulness. Investigators and PI’s would not be out of work because someone has to identify who the suspects are and bring them in. Its hardly possible to haul an entire cities population into court every day. So these spells aid the courts and organisations but do not ensure that there are no problems.

Collar of Feeblemind – good way to keep a Wizards/ Sorcerer locked up.

Quite True, as are AMF areas.

Create Undead – even if its evil, many people will still use it as a free source of labor. Simple commands can include things like “dig here” or “row this boat.” Of course, with permanent Teleports – why row a boat? What’s the point of sailing except to get places?

Good Clerics can’t cast it at all (it has the Evil descriptor) and the undead need to be controlled. That means an absolute limit of 4HD per caster level. Boats will remain because who can afford to link fishing villages with teleport circles at 4,500xp a go.

Glasses/ Earmuffs of Comprehend Languages/ Tongues – the wisdom of the ancients will never be lost to lost languages, no matter how old. Same goes for demonic writings from the Abyss.

True and almost certainly the reason for the small set of languages in D&D, however anyone who wants to keep something secret writes it in code which is not broken, all the items allow is for the person to read the gibberish in another language.

Polymorph – how many workers transformed into Stone Giants does it take to rebuild the pyramids in a couple weeks? How about the King’s loyal warriors transformed into gryphons or dire wolverines or an ankheg (city wall sapper?) does it take to completely change the calculus of war?

The polymorph of workers will help drop construction times somewhat however all that means is less bodies needed to move the same amount of stone because polymorphing 2000 people is a huge task. In war the ability of both sides to polymorph and dispel their troops will balance out.

Contact Other Plane/ Commune – what’s the point of building Universities and learning the discipline of science when you can just ask God? Once the Cleric of Oghma knows something he will spread the knowledge far & wide. Any problem is just a Commune spell away from an answer.

<snip>

See what I mean? In the Earth’s middle ages the Church was seen as the font of all knowledge, and this largely retarded the economic growth of Europe. In D&D-world the Church really will be the font of all knowledge – and it will be right! Information in books cannot be trusted to be correct. Information directly from God is directly from God. No non-Church university can possibly compete with that source of information.

Both spells give one word answers only. And they admit the chance that the deity doesn’t know the answer. D&D deities are not omniscient, even Knowledge gods. If Printing presses just don’t exist no deity would know about it. Clean drinking water is the one that they would know, which is probably one of the reasons that disease is less of a force in D&D societies. Better ploughs yes, expensive magic items created for hundreds of thousands of draft animals? Not going to happen.

And most universties will be strongly linked to the prevalent God of Knowledge. That’s what happens when you have deities with protfolios.

Control Weather – <snip>.

So a 13th level druid affects a 3 mile radius for an average of just over 4 days. And the spell can only add or remove the stated effects. In summer the list is Torrential rain, heat wave, or hailstorm. Want light showers? Not with Control Weather. Plant Growth would be widely used but it only raises yields by 1/3 and affects a ½ mile radius with each casting.

Gate – <snip>.

Gate is a broken spell unless extra caveats are put on it. But anything longer than 1 round per level means that the creature needs paying for what its going to do. And at the end of its service it leaves. The use of Gate is not that much of a problem as there will not be that many 17th+ level casters in any country.

It goes on & on. I’m not saying don’t do it – but your world’s going to be funky.

Oh, and those D&D costs to have a spell cast - those are market prices. For a Wizard, Sorceror or Cleric, it's really 'free' to cast any spell and every spell in their repetoire, every day. Just costs their time. A Sorcerer with Wall of Stone who donates just a week of their spellcasting time to charity could completly rebuild the fortifications of the city, or resurface the King's palace with the most fashionable shade of pink marble.

Absolutely true except for spells that cost xp. And yes the Sorceror (assuming he chose Wall of Stone) can usethe spell to do this and good on him, all that this means is that construction times of rock walls that can be crudely shaped is reduced. So civil engineering projects are quicker and cheaper. That’s a good thing as it means that settlements can be easily fortified against predators.

Society will be changed but the level of change you suggest ignores the limitations of these spells.

 

[Janx]

I've found in the games I've played in, we start as lowl level guys, and the world seems pretty non-magical. We don't see a lot of magic innovations in the world. As the party advances, and the player's own wizards get powerful, we think of new ways to use the spells. Thus, the world changes to become more magic incorporated as we play. The result, we're not impacted by all the game-breaking stuff at low level (which is where it all gets screwy if we had access to that stuff).

At high level, we should see these bigger more magical bits changing the world, because often WE'RE the ones building those teleport pads.

Janx

 

[Mac Callum]

Let's look at divination spells.

This was a good breakdown of the spells for how it would affect the PCs. I disagree with some points though.
As a nit-pick Discern Lies is inferior to Zone of Truth in most respects.


You’re missing my point though, or perhaps I completely misread your first post. As I saw it you were asking what the world would be like – not how the PCs would be different. Most of the effects I talked about are completely separate from what your PCs are doing. Frankly, any one group of PCs is usually too small to affect the world in a meaningful way. You can affect the NPCs around you and save the Princess and kill the Dragon, but the world itself and all the people in it usually march to an irresistible drummer. At least, that’s how I see it.

In the "Real World", Nation X has satellites, ships, and planes to be able to send many troops to any spot in the world within a few hours. Hell, Nation Y could drop nuclear devastation anywhere in the world within minutes. Nation Z could drop commandos on some capital building in the middle of the night.

Why doesn't Nation X, Y, or Z take over the world? Because Nation A, and Nation B, and Nation C also have similar capabilities.

In a D&D world, just like the Real World, magic/technology does not exist in a vacuum. One kingdom/nation doesn't usually have a real strong advantage for very long.

Thank you. My point exactly. I was just trying to explore the ramification of D&D magic.

The theme I was trying to reach and touch was that a small number of casters, over time, would create magical items which would drastically affect all the ‘little people’ around them. Once a Church put some effort into Permanent Purify Food & Drink spells into the city’s fountains or aqueducts, water born plagues are in the history bin (only needing 3rd level casters). This has a big affect on the world. A shortage of potable water was a major driver of city placement and other social practices, such a brewing beer and tea. A couple Bottles of Endless Water left uncapped could meet the water needs of a decent sized city in the middle of the Sahara. Its these magical affects which continue long after the original spellcaster is dead and buried that will have the biggest effect. There are no rules that say, “magical items need maintenance” or “even ‘permanent’ items break down eventually.”

As a historical example when chainmail was first invented it was very expensive. However it tended to survive its wearers with only small repairs. Eventually the Vikings built up such a supply of it that every warrior had a chainmail shirt. It wasn’t easier to produce – it just accumulated. I think the same would happen with magical items.

That’s why I don’t run a ‘pure’ D&D world. I’ve limited certain spells similarly to dren. I’ve also incorporated rules for explaining how magical items deteriorate over time. I think it’s cool that if you find an artifact in ancient ruins you have to be very careful. It might work, it might be a dud, or it might be prone to wild surges. Even common +1 Longswords may deteriorate this way over time, blowing up in a Flaming Sphere or something. The time frame is long enough that it will never happen to the items the PCs commission, but it explains why in a world where hundreds of elven & dragon generations have passed since the gods created the races why there isn’t a magical item under every rock.

My main rule-change is that Teleport cannot be made permanent. That just changes too much.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to rebut each invalid point.

They're ALL invalid? It's ok, I see that they aren't.

Teleport Circle - Not every fishing village would have one, and I never said they would. The point was that an Empire could be spaced out over several worlds, or be non-contigous on one world, etc. I'm exploring remifications. Without linking every burb in the world, it would definately change things if a Teleport Circle linked the subways of New York, London, Tokyo and Paris, wouldn't it? Or Timbuktu?

"As soon as the army moves"

So what? Protecting the supply lines is always a critical part of war. My point was that Teleport Circles change everything. Your argument does not refute that.

"The sheer cost of creating a pairs of permanent teleportation circles means that it would not be viable except between very important locations."

Or very remote ones - such as Mars or Alpha Centauri. This also makes it possible for Hannibal to skip the Alps and hit Rome directly with all his elephants healthy & rested. If we're exploring a world that embraces the D&D-isms, that's something you have to think about.

"Fortresses would not be useless, the purpose of a fortress is to allow control of an area."

I believe I said "Fortresses in a Moutain Pass would be pointless." The would be. The purpose of a Fortress in the Pass is to prevent troops from going through, because the moutains serve as a barrier. With mass Troop Movement magics or flying Airships (a la Eberron) the mountains cease to be a barrier. Now you've just got a Fortress far from the cities you're trying to protect. You enemy goes right past your defenses without ever engaging them. For historical referance see "The Maginot Line"

"The polymorph of workers will help drop construction times somewhat however all that means is less bodies needed to move the same amount of stone because polymorphing 2000 people is a huge task. In war the ability of both sides to polymorph and dispel their troops will balance out."

This and several others are good points. I'm just exploring the ramifications of D&D-isms. Keeping a supply of Dispels on hand is good, but what's the range? In imagining a D&D world, I'm imagining a defender's castle (blanketed in Dimension Anchors and Private Sanctums, of course) facing a line of troops augmented by Polymorphed troops. A Trebuchet operated by Stone Giants probably has a greater range than Dispel Magic and throws stones the size of houses. Ouch. What's the counter? A Titan with a Collosal Baseball bat?

"Society will be changed but the level of change you suggest ignores the limitations of these spells."

Maybe, but the limitations of related magical items is much fuzzier.

Just a quick example: Eberron has introduced the idea (which I have in my homebrews for a long time) of big, fixed items that change how spells work. There's a foundation stone for houses which absorbs spells like Private Sanctum or Guards and Wards and extends the durations for days/ level. There are Ship's Wheels which take weather control powers and guarantee calm weather around that ship - for only a 10% increase in the cost of the ship!

These things change the rules. So, just as one "for instance", imagine a magical item which costs gold & Xp to build up front, but has the following affects: Plant Growth spells increase their crop output to 50% and the range to 10 mile diamaters. Similar to a Metamagic Rod but it only works for that one spell. Boom. A single Druid can now substantially increase all of the fields around a big city in a week or two. He can do this both in summer, fall and spring growing seasons. I don't know what level Druid would be required to make that, but it only takes a 5th level Druid to use it. Those aren't so rare that most Kingdoms with arable land wouldn't want it.

Just as one example.