Empowered Awaken

[RigaMortus]

there are exceptions though

Like what?

 

[Testament]

Or the druid wild shapes and gets all his mental stats to a base of 27 by empowered maximised awakening himself.

Insane spell, urgently needs fixing.

 

[Crothian]

Like what?

Dispel magic

 

[Hypersmurf]

Like what?

I won't say 'exceptions', but I'll offer some possibilities for discussion.

Maximized Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound - does its 2d6+3 bite attack get Maximized to 15?
Maximized Mordenkainen's Sword - does the 4d6+3 damage get Maximized to 27?
Maximized Magic Stone - 1d6+1 damage maxed?
Maximized Shillelagh: "It deals damage as if it were two size categories larger (a Small club or quarterstaff so transmuted deals 1d8 points of damage, a Medium 2d6, and a Large 3d6), +1 for its enhancement bonus."
Maximized Gust of Wind: "A Tiny or smaller creature on the ground is knocked down and rolled 1d4x10 feet, taking 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per 10 feet. If flying, a Tiny or smaller creature is blown back 2d6x10 feet and takes 2d6 points of nonlethal damage due to battering and buffeting." Does a non-flying Tiny Creature get rolled 40 feet for 16 damage?
Maximized Holy Sword: +12 damage against evil creatures?

Then you get into questions like hit points of summoned monsters.

-Hyp.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Like what?

There are rules in the game that exist purely outside the sphere of character awareness, therefore in character abilities simply do not apply. Character generation rules would be one example. Levelling rules would be another. Awaken uses a special kind of character generation rule.

A simple example would be using the Luck Domain reroll to modify the hit point increase when gaining a level. If the character is rolling for hit points then Luck applies.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A simple example would be using the Luck Domain reroll to modify the hit point increase when gaining a level. If the character is rolling for hit points then Luck applies.

Interesting wording on that power.

"This extraordinary ability allows you to reroll one roll that you have just made before the DM declares whether the roll results in success or failure."

What about, say, the damage on a Flame Strike? There is no 'success or failure'... it's not a roll against a DC. The number of Celestial Badgers provided by your Summon Monster III? Turning checks?

Aside from that... what's the difference between the hit points gained by levelling up, and the hit points gained from an Aid spell? Would you forbid a reroll on one, and allow it on the other?

-Hyp.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Aside from that... what's the difference between the hit points gained by levelling up, and the hit points gained from an Aid spell? Would you forbid a reroll on one, and allow it on the other?

IMO the mechanical details of levelling up are not an in game concepts, even if the broad outlines are. These are just post hoc mechanics that apply what the PC must have been doing for weeks or months. The Fighter character does not decide to pick up a level of Ranger to get more skill points. The Fighter character focuses more on skills and certain styles of fighting; the end result is approximated by a level of Ranger.

Likewise the character did not just roll for more hit points. The character had been acquiring those new hit points for some times, only now does the player discover the exact number when the levelling mechanics are finally resolved.

Aid occurs withing the realm of the character, and it is usually reasonable for a PC to optimize usage of these spells to whatever degree the mechanics allow. I would allow the Luck ability to apply here. (You could play otherwise, but that ususally entails the DM taking the dice out of the players' hands, and that just does not seem worth the bother to me.)

All IMO. Goes without saying that the RAW is clear as mud on this issue.

 

[blargney the second]

This is more entertaining than I'd thought it would get!
-blarg

 

[Hypersmurf]

Likewise the character did not just roll for more hit points. The character had been acquiring those new hit points for some times, only now does the player discover the exact number when the levelling mechanics are finally resolved.

So if I've been acquiring the nine hit points I just rolled for the last month, why did I fall unconscious when I took twenty-five damage yesterday? 24 was my max hit points a month ago... surely, the day before I determined that the hit points I've been acquiring for some time brings my total to 33, I must have been on at least 30! ... right?

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

A ruling from the 3rd Edition FAQ seems good:

If you cast a maximized summon monster spell, does the
summoned creature get maximum hit points? The same
question applies to the psionic power astral construct, do
you get the maximum hit points for those creatures? What
about an astral construct’s special qualities that increase hit
points, such as buff and extra buff? Are those maximized as
well?

No. The number of creatures is the numerical effect of the
spell or power. Any die rolls the creature makes are not.

The intention here would rule out post-effects such as later weapon damage and the like. If hit points are not affected, then it's conceivable that ability scores should also be shielded from the maximize effect.

Certainly I agree that levelling and similar effects don't occur at any particular point in time, and are ineligible for improvement by abilities that require a choice/action at particular moment.