Empowered Awaken

[Ridley's Cohort]

It is a reasonable argument, Nail. A perfectly reasonable interpretation of the RAW, I must admit.

But I would say the only direct effect of the spell is that the plant (or animal) becomes a fully sentient creature. The rest are just suggestions on how to generate the mental stats for a sentient creature.

 

[werk]

yep

This is more entertaining than I'd thought it would get!
-blarg

Also works great on animal companions and familiars

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Also works great on animal companions and familiars

Except, of course, that it doesn't.

Awakened animals cannot be animal companions - "An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount" - and familiars are magical beasts, and therefore cannot be targeted by the spell.

 

[Darkness]

Or the druid wild shapes and gets all his mental stats to a base of 27 by empowered maximised awakening himself.

Insane spell, urgently needs fixing.

Even if it worked, it'd be 18 + (3d6)/2, actually. (PHB, p.98)

 

[jerichothebard]

But since there is a point of resolution when hit points are rolled, why can't I use the Luck Domain ability to reroll it?

After all, you can use it to reroll a Spot check or a Will save, as long as you do it before the DM announces success or failure, and they might both be situations the character is unaware of.

The Luck domain ability is inherently a metagame concept (the character never rolls dice, so the character can't choose to reroll a die), so applying it to metagame situation like levelling up isn't at all odd.

-Hyp.

The wording on the power leads me to believe that it can only be applied to a die roll in which there is a chance of success or failure. Kind of the inverse of the Take 20 rule. Therefore, it couldn't be applied to HP, or randomized effects of spells, etc.

 

[blargney the second]

Here are the relvant rules:

Awaken

Transmutation
Level: Drd 5 Components: V, S, DF, XP Casting Time: 24 hours Range: Touch Target: Animal or tree touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes

You awaken a tree or animal to humanlike sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the animal’s current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened).

The awakened animal or tree is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it.

An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6. An awakened plant gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines, creepers, and so forth, and it has senses similar to a human’s.

An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.

An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any).

XP Cost: 250 XP.

EMPOWER SPELL [METAMAGIC]

Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

 

[Nail]

It is a reasonable argument, Nail. A perfectly reasonable interpretation of the RAW, I must admit.

But I would say the only direct effect of the spell is that the plant (or animal) becomes a fully sentient creature. The rest are just suggestions on how to generate the mental stats for a sentient creature.

Err...more than just suggestions, don't you think? I think most would call 'em "rules".

Although I can't think of a good RAW arguement not to allow it, as I've been mulling over it over lunch, I'd probably end up house-ruling this little rules knot away. YMMV, of course.

Think of it: a tree with a potential 27 in Int, Wis, and Chr. Nifty! Sounds like the next thing the PC would do is try to train it into being a druid....... Imagine awakening a very big tree (say...16 HD). With a maximized Awaken (and heck; let's throw in a Rod of Greater Empower), that means the final tree stats would be (assume average rolls):

Erogath, Awakened Tree
Gargantuan Plant (Augmented)
HD: 16d10+60 (148 hp)
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 6, Con —, Int 23, Wis 23, Cha 23

Interestingly enough, it has no Con score. I'd suggest one of it's first brand-spanking-new feats be Improved Toughness. With that Dex, it'll need it.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Err...more than just suggestions, don't you think? I think most would call 'em "rules".

Only if you are thinking like a lowly peon (Player). To the DM they are guidelines and suggestions.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Err...more than just suggestions, don't you think? I think most would call 'em "rules".

You think the 3d6 score for mental attributes is part of the magic of the spell. I (and others) think that it is not - it is merely the result of sentience.

The mental attributes' scores are not part of the magic. Sentience is created by the magic, the degree of sentience is not.

You think differently, as is your perogative, but it isn't the only way of reading the spell (and in light of potential abuse is not, IMO, the most sensible way of reading it either).

Cheers

 

[Saeviomagy]

You think the 3d6 score for mental attributes is part of the magic of the spell. I (and others) think that it is not - it is merely the result of sentience.

... granted by the spell in question.

The mental attributes' scores are not part of the magic. Sentience is created by the magic, the degree of sentience is not.

If this were truely the case, then there would be a "sentient tree" template, and the spell would refer us to that. Instead, the spell itself grants X, Y and Z.

I mean fireball creates a ball of fire which then burns your enemies for Xd6 damage. I'm assuming you don't rule that non-empowerable, right? So whats the difference between it and awaken?