D&D 5E Empowering Races

[steeldragons]

You that this solution is exactly what gave the Drows such a badass reputation in 1ed and 2ed? We all know how over powered they were. Is that really where we want to go?

I, in fact, did not know that was how a Drow's 1e powers were determined. But interesting/"fun fact" tidbit.

I suppose my response to that is, as we should all know by now, "If everyone is special, then no one is special."

That is, if this kind of thing is applied to all species, then who has the leg up/is "op'ed"? (not the same/as much as 1e drow, per se. But the drow 5e traits and innate magic seems reasonably in play)

I would argue, no one.

There's just an across the board raising of the baseline power levels attributed to your species. In a way, in that way, it is a different/new way for "player empowerment/choice points" the game has not, really, ever incorporated as default/core game.

 

[steeldragons]

Feats or effective racial/paragon classes do not properly resolve being able to have enough design space for more powerful racial abilities.

1. Feats & paragon classes don't necessarily come in at 1st level. Being fourth level and poof, my wise old centaur cleric goes from being medium to large strains the narrative and belief. These are racial, in many cases it makes no sense to pick them up later.

2. Feats and class levels compete with other feats or class levels. Few would spend a feat to make their centaur large if it didn't help them. There's an opportunity cost to it - does growing to large win out for the centaur sorcerer over other feats or an ASI? Would they want to take one or more non-casting levels to become large?

Well, no. We're (well, speaking for myself, I'm) talking about using it/building it in to part of character creation and development. Not a "choose this or..."

There's no reason you couldn't make "Centaurs are large" as a simple (quite obvious) part of the species. I wouldn't necessarily make that a "special trait"...though, I suppose, if someone wants to play a medium centaur for whatever reasons, they could/should be able to, I guess...

So, no, I agree, a character at 4th level just "poof" being large is totally immersion/verisimilitude breaking.

So...solution?...perhaps, every species' physical traits are their automatic 1st level starting trait/feat. (and for fun, let a player choose only 1 additional).

Then, future choices are a matter of the character..."evolving," for lack of a better term? "Growing up/maturing?" Conduct a ritual or learn something about their species they didn't know before? Become more "expanded" as an individual than the bulk of their species can become, because "experience/exploration of the wider world than their culture generally does," interacting with different species, "absorbing" more than usual amounts of magic inherent to the world...or any number of other narrative ways/reasons.

For example: An elf starts with lowlight vision and a Perception bonus. Player chooses one other thing (preferably consistant with their upbringing/culture).

Things like "reflex save bonus" or especially trained "keen senses" or "extra movement/speed" or "ignoring natural difficult terrain" or "bow attack bonus" and "innate magic/cantrips" are all things that can be learned/"develop" as the character increases in power and expertise. So these things are just 'picked up" as you adventure/advance.

...also has the added bonus of meaning not every elf/dwarf/tiefling/what-have-you you meet is going to be exactly the same individual as others you've encountered.

 

[aco175]

Racial feats- 1st level to 20th.

 

[Helldritch]

I, in fact, did not know that was how a Drow's 1e powers were determined. But interesting/"fun fact" tidbit.

I suppose my response to that is, as we should all know by now, "If everyone is special, then no one is special."

That is, if this kind of thing is applied to all species, then who has the leg up/is "op'ed"? (not the same/as much as 1e drow, per se. But the drow 5e traits and innate magic seems reasonably in play)

I would argue, no one.

There's just an across the board raising of the baseline power levels attributed to your species. In a way, in that way, it is a different/new way for "player empowerment/choice points" the game has not, really, ever incorporated as default/core game.

Drows in 1st edition had
Infravision up to 120' (this stayed in 5ed)
Magic Resistance of 50% +2%/level. This meant that a 10th level drow had a 68% to not even have to save against magic.
+2 to save against all magic that would pass the first check. And magic resistance was against 11th, so a wizard of 5th would see the previous drow resistance rise up by 6x5% or 30%! Making that drow magic resistant at 98% vs that character...

They all could cast at 1st level: Dancing light, faerie fire and Darkness.
Those of 4th level or higher would add: Detect Magic, Know alignment, Levitate.
And all females (rarely encountered) would be able to cast: Clairvoyance, Detect Lie, Suggestion and Dispel Magic regardless of class and levels.
Crazy isn't it?

But back to our topic.
Having races add more power through level isn't a bad idea per say. But at which level would these enter into consideration and at which power? Would racial feat at level 5, 10 and 15 be enough? We are playing with how 5ed was built and balanced here. Using feats, an optional rule by the way, is not the most elegant thing considering that some races should not even have racial feats or would need racial feats to be built from the ground up! And the balancing of so many race (and in some cases retro balancing) would quickly become a nightmare.

It might be interesting to see the thought process behind the final choices.

 

[steeldragons]

Drows in 1st edition had
-snipped-
Crazy isn't it?

Oh totally. They were nuts. I seem to recall (and I don't know why/where this was) that the -admittedly, nearly impossible to overcome- magic resistance was a result of their ages long affiliation with the strange radiations of their subterranean and demonic magics. Player Character drow (when introduced in UA), I do not believe (and could be wrong), had/were allowed any magic resistance...or anything beyond a normal elf's charm resistance...maybe not even that. The innate magic was still a thing, though, with the gender differences.

But back to our topic.
Having races add more power through level isn't a bad idea per say. But at which level would these enter into consideration and at which power? Would racial feat at level 5, 10 and 15 be enough? We are playing with how 5ed was built and balanced here. Using feats, an optional rule by the way, is not the most elegant thing considering that some races should not even have racial feats or would need racial feats to be built from the ground up! And the balancing of so many race (and in some cases retro balancing) would quickly become a nightmare.

It might be interesting to see the thought process behind the final choices.

Well, yes. It would be a good deal of work. But that is what it would require if one wanted to "Empower Races" in their existing game. Honestly, you'd just have to do the species of the PCs you have to deal with...and then make the rest up as they come up/into play (whether as new PCs or for the DM). SO it'd probably be doable.

 

[Helldritch]

Oh totally. They were nuts. I seem to recall (and I don't know why/where this was) that the -admittedly, nearly impossible to overcome- magic resistance was a result of their ages long affiliation with the strange radiations of their subterranean and demonic magics. Player Character drow (when introduced in UA), I do not believe (and could be wrong), had/were allowed any magic resistance...or anything beyond a normal elf's charm resistance...maybe not even that. The innate magic was still a thing, though, with the gender differences.

And the two weapon fighting with no penalties... never forget that one.

Well, yes. It would be a good deal of work. But that is what it would require if one wanted to "Empower Races" in their existing game. Honestly, you'd just have to do the species of the PCs you have to deal with...and then make the rest up as they come up/into play (whether as new PCs or for the DM). SO it'd probably be doable.

Ok. You are lucky and PC races are in your group: Human, Elf, Dwarf and Gnome. They encounter orcs, hobgoblins, tabaxi and so on... How many races will you have to do in advance to make sure to be prepared for all eventualities? How many? And if you do them on the fly, will your mod be balanced? And make sure to remember them as players will remember. They always do.

 

[steeldragons]

And the two weapon fighting with no penalties... never forget that one.


Ok. You are lucky and PC races are in your group: Human, Elf, Dwarf and Gnome. They encounter orcs, hobgoblins, tabaxi and so on... How many races will you have to do in advance to make sure to be prepared for all eventualities? How many? And if you do them on the fly, will your mod be balanced? And make sure to remember them as players will remember. They always do.

Given your hypothetical, you'd do Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Gnome. You would know, as the DM what species are likely to be encountered in a given session...so, let's say, before play, you have Orcs (which, given you've already done humans, gets you everything you need half-orcs. For that matter, you've done Human and ELf too, for the PCs. So, again, hypothetically, you have Half-elves done, too. ) and Hobgoblins done. Knowing that there's a chance they'll run into the tabaxi bounty hunters contracted by the hobgoblin big bad by the next session, let's get them out of the way too.

So, there you go. For a week, probably two of play, you have nine species in the bag, already.

I wouldn't advise doing them on the fly. Some semblance of balance is warranted, but that doesn't mean -and definitely should not result in- every species all getting the same 4 or 5 kinds of things, so at the end of the day, everyone does in fact just play the same.

 

[Helldritch]

Given your hypothetical, you'd do Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Gnome. You would know, as the DM what species are likely to be encountered in a given session...so, let's say, before play, you have Orcs (which, given you've already done humans, gets you everything you need half-orcs. For that matter, you've done Human and ELf too, for the PCs. So, again, hypothetically, you have Half-elves done, too. ) and Hobgoblins done. Knowing that there's a chance they'll run into the tabaxi bounty hunters contracted by the hobgoblin big bad by the next session, let's get them out of the way too.

So, there you go. For a week, probably two of play, you have nine species in the bag, already.

I wouldn't advise doing them on the fly. Some semblance of balance is warranted, but that doesn't mean -and definitely should not result in- every species all getting the same 4 or 5 kinds of things, so at the end of the day, everyone does in fact just play the same.

And with two groups, of different levels? About three (my case if you count Friday Night D&D) and I know a few other DMs with 4 groups... The amount of work is a wee bit more than you imagine.

And a lot of us play with random encounters...

 

[steeldragons]

And with two groups, of different levels? About three (my case if you count Friday Night D&D) and I know a few other DMs with 4 groups... The amount of work is a wee bit more than you imagine.

And a lot of us play with random encounters...

shrug Guess you're groups are just SOL, then. No "empowering/empowered races" for you.

Do you have an alternate solution of what the original poster is asking/looking for?

Convince me how it can be done in a way, across the board, other than what I and others (more or less) have suggested.

 

[beancounter]

I realize this is slightly off topic, but IMO, the abilities of races and classes should be toned down, or at least spread out over higher levels, instead of front-loading the best abilities at the lower levels.

Because what results, is that by 7th level, the PC's are almost unstoppable.