[EN World Book Club] Tigana Discussion [October Selection]

[Atridis]

I wanted to contribute more to the discussion, but I didn't read it again for the bookclub. I'm going off my memory from a number of years ago, so it's sketchy.

I'm in the same boat. I read it awhile ago, and I was sorry when it ended, but I don't recall many details. A discussion is probably a good excuse to re-read something (which I rarely do), but I didn't get around to it this time.

 

[Dacileva]

As with several responses in this thread, this one contains SPOILERS. Don't read unless you're done with the book, or don't mind spoilers.

How about you? Did you like it, or not? Why?

I did like it, rather a lot. It was engrossing, interesting, well-crafted, genuine, and it felt somehow important. Kay has a way with language that feels both archaic and organic. At risk of comparison, it seems like some of the lingual tricks McKiernan was attempting in Dragondoom were things that Kay does naturally in Tigana.

Have you read anything else by Kay? How does Tigana compare? Will you read more of his works now?

I have read the Fionavar Tapestry, by Kay, and deeply enjoyed it. It is, IMO, easily the best treatment of the "real world people drawn into fantasy world" trope that I've ever read. Tigana was something I'd looked at several times, but never brought myself to read it until you picked it for the Club. That said, I think I liked Tigana actually more than the Fionavar Tapestry. This is what low-magic fantasy should be like. As for reading more of his works, I'm probably going to try to pick up Sailing to Sarantium once I'm done with my current crop of books (Pattern Recognition, of course, and Quicksilver and Ilium, among others).

There was mention in another thread of statting out characters in D&D terms. While I am not big on that, I did note that the book contains many of the elements that I enjoy in a fantasy RPG campaign: low magic, nice mix of combat and "role-playing", an overarching meta-plot that leaves room for individual characters' motivations and goals, and opportunity for the main characters to affect the world around them. Agree or disagree, and why?

It certainly had what you mention, but these aren't the elements in most fantasy RPG campaigns that I enjoy. When you mentioned this, I started thinking about it, and realized that the overarching meta-plot would be far too restrictive, in my opinion, and the conflicts seemed a bit too limited to single characters. Perhaps in a play-by-post or play-by-email, sure, but not a standard face-to-face game. I prefer to create the world's situation, and let the meta-plots and motivations build organically out of the characters' individual and collective actions and desires.

Do you have a favorite character from the book, and if so why? I am not sure any of them could be deemed my favorite, but Dianora certainly surprised me. When the focus shifted to her in Part Two I was disappointed at first. I had become so caught up in the other characters, and it seemed that the plot was just coming together, so I wanted to see what happened next. But she is such a fascinating character, with deep inner conflict that is very believable, and her section of the book did a nice job of bringing us crucial background information on some of the other characters.

Oddly enough, I think my favorite character was Brandin, as some others have mentioned. Dianora was interesting, and I was somewhat drawn to her, but her choices of love over duty and honor, while important for Alessan's eventual goals, felt more like weaknesses of conviction on her part, and demeaned her love for Baerd. Lest anyone think that I disapprove of her because of the incest issue, I might point out that, in the period of history on which Tigana is very, very loosely based, incest had a far smaller stigma than it does today, and most royal families of Europe were very convoluted and insular, including many incestuous relationships. I was taking it in that light, so my distaste for Dianora is solely on her shoulders.

Brandin, on the other hand, is always faithful to himself, and his desires. The whole point of the book, the spell on Tigana, is based in his deep passion for his son, and his grief at his son's loss. This is an emotion I can understand, honestly. Sure, it was an overreaction, but it was there. Given some of the things other people said about the Tiganans, also, showed me that some of the stereotypes about them were justified: arrogance and superiority. Brandin even shows that, after twenty years' time, while he preserves the spell, he actually starts to regret the necessity of his actions. He seemed the most human, and sympathetic, character of them all.

A close second would be, as someone else mentioned, Sandre. He had more growth in himself and as a character throughout the book than anyone, as evidenced by the contrast between his treatment of his son, and his actions with regards to Catriana in Senzio.

Another question I have for people is: How did Tigana make you feel? It's a great story, but more than that, what did it make you think? I found the communal ache of the main characters at the loss of their homeland and thier history striking. Futher, I think that it was actually the loss of the history that was more painful than the loss of the homeland itself. Their actions and dialoge makes me think that they are more upset at the general inability of people to realize what Tigana was than at the fact that it is no more. Do you agree? Disagree? Did you come away with a different feeling?

I found this book almost difficult to read, despite how easy it was to keep turning the pages, and how much it almost forced me to keep reading. Kay has an interesting ability: I felt sympathy for absolutely everyone in this book... So it was difficult to decide, sometimes, which person in any given conflict I felt strongest for. Conflicts between sympathetic characters can be very heart-wrenching, and while that was emotionally draining, I deeply enjoyed it, since it encouraged my feeling of realism.

 

[Rpjunkie]

I just finished reading the book last night and I enjoyed it as well. Like several people said the sex was really not needed to make the book and could have been left out.
I beleive that it is Brandin as a character that I enjoyd the most. He was the most human of them all and in the end I was sad that he had died.

I'm very glad this club is here cause i have now read 2 of the books on the suggestion list. and am in the process of reading a third and so far they are all good.

China meiville - Perdido street station
Tigana
And am now reading "the anubis gates" by tim powers.

Keep up the good work!

RPJ

 

[ForceUser]

Tigana is a fantastic book. I've loved everything I've ever read of Kay; did you guys know he worked on The Silmarillion too?

Anyone who's a fan of Tigana should read The Fionavar Tapestry; it will make you cry. Kay's writing always evokes powerful emotions, I've discovered.

 

[Sam]

Anyone who's a fan of Tigana should read The Fionavar Tapestry; it will make you cry. Kay's writing always evokes powerful emotions, I've discovered.

The Fionavar Tapestry was a very good series. As said earlier, a great treatment of a common base. I think though, that Kay's work got better over time. The Sarantine Mosaic was great, and I consider Tigana my favorite Kay novel. I think that over time, his writing got more developed (although he wrote Tigana before The Sarantine Mosaic). And even though the latter works are set in low-magic quasi-historical settings, I found them more interesting.

He is able to pull at your heartstings. What surprised me when reading Tigana was on how many levels the writing evoked a response.

 

[Dacileva]

The Fionavar Tapestry was a very good series. As said earlier, a great treatment of a common base.

Hey, that was me! Someone read my response, cool...

He is able to pull at your heartstings. What surprised me when reading Tigana was on how many levels the writing evoked a response.

Yeah, this amazed me, too. It was stunning to me to find that, of everyone in the entire book, I could only hate ONE freaking person. I was disappointed in Dianora's choices, but the only person I could truly hate was Alberico, and that was just because he was callous and almost arbitrarily cruel.

 

[nHammer]

Due to limited 'Net access at this time, I'm unable to spend the time talking about how much I liked Tigana. Hopefully that will change in the near future.

 

[Red Baron]

Another long-time fan of Kay popping in to say Tigana is a terrific book, one I highly recommend to anyone looking for good fantasy literature. (Someone said something about Kay and LeGuin being the greats -- couldn't agree more, though I'd have to leave Tolkien in there too!)


I read this book a long time ago, so the fog has settled quite thickly on my memory of it, I'm afraid. I'm due to reread it, I think.

Interestingly, I've heard (or rather read) people praising The Fionavar Tapestry quite highly here, and I have to admit that it's by far my least favorite of Kay's works. (I found the treatment of Arthurian legend to be tedious.) But that's just me -- apparently it's worked for others, so who'm I to say?!

Anyway, GGK is among my favourites; if you have yet to read his work, you're really missing out on a wonderful experience.