EN World City Project: Geography

[jdavis]

Map looks great

I like the idea of the inner wall falling into disuse. At least - more so than the idea of having two fucntioning ring walls. But I still doubt enough time has passed to allow for *two* such massive undertakings. A far as I'm concerned, the fewer walls we add at this point the better!

The inner ring would date back to the time of the burning of the city, in many places those walls would be charred and blackened still from the fire that raged hundreds of years ago (did we ever get a date on the fire?). The need for the new wall probably had to do with the fact that the old wall was breached and the city was burned. Also the old walls were probably not near such a massive undertaking as the New Walls were.

Also, the shape of the dwarven district is rather weird. It looks as if it grew out of the outer city wall, rather than as a settlement next to the Old city wall. Almost as if someone just looked at the outline of the city, and carved out a section for the dwarven district.

The dwarves would also have picked out the highest ground in Mor's End for their settlement. Maybe they can even see the mountains of Kul Moren from there? If they're on a hill, that would definitely affect the street plan in the area.

There should be a Dwarven tower somewhere in that district, the dwarven district was a extension of their origional keep that the city grew around.

Oh another thing, the squats will extend outside the wall to the south, probably around trade gate.

 

[Conaill]

Oh another thing, the squats will extend outside the wall to the south, probably around trade gate.

And to the east along the river! It's farther away from the swamp and its inhabitants, and patrols along the trade route probably keep the area North of it somewhat safe. I figure there's a lively traffic of small rowboats between the Squats and the Squats-beyond-the-wall, and some of the more daring Squatters may even use the parts of the Warren that stretches underneath the walls!

Thora the Witch lives in that general area, between the trade road and the river, downstream from Mor's End

 

[Knightfall]

Got it... In that case... It looks freakin' awesome. You've done an incredible job KF72...

I wish I could send over a team of professional hand massagers and acupuncturists to alleviate the pain.

--sam

Lalato, if you want to help alleviate the pain in my life somewhat then pickup a copy of Enigma of the Arcanexus from Dark Portal Games. (You can get it through Amazon. See link on DPG product page.)

http://www.darkportalgames.biz/products/wr_series.html#wr1

I helped write it and gain coin for every copy sold (and no I can't say how much). Plus, it's a really good adventure to boot.

Cheers! (Oww...)

KF72

p.s. No more typing for a while... off to read Dragon 306.

 

[wizardoftheplains]

Wow. What a ton of work here.
Catch me up to speed please.
I've skimmed this and have come up with the following locations within the scity. I'm most interested in Districts.
Posh District
Dwarven District
Western Common District
Jollita District
Dock District
The Squats
The Heart of the City
Gods District
The Citadel
East Passage
New Bridge
Mage’s Roost
Westgate
Tradegate
Pilon Island
Northern Docks
Southern Docks
Dock Harbor

What did I miss. District list complete?
Thanks,
gary

 

[Conaill]

Have we decided yet on a scale for the larger map? I.e. how many miles away are Lalaton and Kul Moren? How long does it take to cross the swamps?

There have been some watchtowers proposed over on the "Protecting the City" thread, in terms of "a day's walk" etc.

As a reference, here are some overland movement rates per day:

Walk: 24 miles
Horse: up to 48 miles, more likely 32 miles
Cart/Wagon: 16 miles

Swamp, on road or trail: x 3/4
Swamp, trackless: x 1/2

Mountains, highway: x 3/4
Mountains, road or trail: x 1/2

Hills, road or trail: x 3/4
Hills, trackless: x 1/2


If we model Lake Enoria after Lake Ontario, that's about 100 miles by 50 miles. On a fast horse, it would only take you three days to get to the other side by road.

I would put Lalaton about two days away from Mor's End by trade caravan, or 32 miles. That way, we can put a rest stop for the caravans halfway in between. Or do we want to be able to transport fresh daily fish from Lalaton to Mor's End? Then we're limited to 16 miles.

Kul Moren should probably be a few days from Lalaton by caravan. Given terrain and size/quality of the road, let's assume 9 miles per day (16 miles x 3/4). So Mor's End is at least 20 miles from Lalaton.

Wagons traveling the causeway through the swamp only cover 12 miles per day, so they may need to spend a night inside the swamp, or do a forced march to get perhaps 18 miles or so per day. How wide do we want the swamp to be?

Swamp Keep is half-day’s walk south of Mor’s End. That's 6-9 miles into the swamp, depending on trails.

Sparguard Keep is a days walk from Mor's End on the North side of the lake. That puts it at about 24 miles away. That's past the last rest post for caravans on their way to Mor's End. If we put Lalaton three caravan days away from Mor's End, Sparguard Keep would be conveniently halfway between the two.

 

[Lalato]

This is just a guess...

but I think Lalaton (I swear I had nothing to do with that name) is about 60 miles west from Mor's End.

Kul Moren is at least another 60+ miles north of Lalaton.

There is likely a watchtower halfway between Lalaton and Mor's End. I'm not sure where other towers should be.

--sam

 

[jdavis]

Have we decided yet on a scale for the larger map? I.e. how many miles away are Lalaton and Kul Moren? How long does it take to cross the swamps?

There have been some watchtowers proposed over on the "Protecting the City" thread, in terms of "a day's walk" etc.

I used the term a days walk because I didn't know the scale of the map. There will probably be several small towers in the North but most are probably abandoned. Halfway between Lalaton and Mor's End on the edge of the lake would be a good place for Sparguard (the northern tower detailed in the guard thread).

 

[Conaill]

Just updated my post above with actual numbers while you guys were posting...

So let's put Lalaton 48 miles away from Lalaton, with Sparguard midway in between. That sounds reasonably close to Lalato's 60 miles. Two days on foot, a full days ride on a fast horse, three days by caravan.

Kul Moren 60 miles north of Lalaton... at an average 3/4 movement, that would be 4 days on foot, 2 days by horse, 3 days by donkey or mule, or 7 days by caravan.

Still need to put a number on the size of the swamp though. Do we want caravans to be able to cross it in one day? I would recomend not. How about 20 miles wide? That would put it just within reach for a foolish caravan driver to try cross it without stopping (diving about 14 hours straight).

That also means the ferry between the "big island" (we need a better name for that damn thing! ) and Enoria Tower would not just be a river crossing, it would actually travel several miles across the lake past the swamp. Could be open to attack by small boats from the swamp, which is fine by me.

 

[Lalato]

I would put Lalaton about two days away from Mor's End by trade caravan, or 32 miles. That way, we can put a rest stop for the caravans halfway in between. Or do we want to be able to transport fresh daily fish from Lalaton to Mor's End? Then we're limited to 16 miles.

Wouldn't it be faster to transport fish via the lake? That's why I put Lalaton so far away from Mor's End.

On a keelboat with good current a fishing crew could make Mor's End in 17 hours.

A barge would take 18.5 hours.

If the boat has a sail that might cut the time also. That part isn't clear in the DMG because it is assumed that sails aren't used on lakes and rivers. If however, we used sail boats from the DMG, and added a good current (3 mph), the travel time would be cut to 12 hours.

My guess is that barges and keelboats leave Lalaton around noon so they can arrive for the next morning's fish market. Barges and Keelboats are probably cheaper to build so they probably are the majority of the boats used. A few sailboats might be used, but they don't hold as much as a barge or keelboat.

--sam

 

[Conaill]

I think that without ice, transporting fresh fish over that kind of distance isn't really feasible - sailing ships or not. We may have to leave fresh fish for Mor's End up to the fishing industry based in Port Jollita.

However Lalaton could be exporting some sort of salted, pickled or dried fish. Some sort of local delicacy. That would also make a lot of sense for the caravans passing through: they'll need some sort of food that lasts a long time while they're on the road...