EN World City Project: Geography

[GladiusNP]

Maybe the Lalaton fishermen tend to go out to the main shoals, which are halfway between Lalaton and Mor's End, catch a load, then sail south to the city. They spend about nine hours getting to the main fishing area, then take it south to the city. This takes the pressure off the fishermen in the city, makes Lalaton worthwhile in terms of trade with the city, and means the fish don't spoil.

Does Kul Moren get supplied by Lalaton? I didn't think dwarves liked fish....

How far is it to cross the swamp? I remember 14 hours been given as time for a desperate caravaner. I'd say this should be longer - otherwise it's too short to cross on horseback. A light horse could race across in 1/3 of the time - that's about 4.7 hrs (page 143 of the PHB). This means the swamp is hardly an impediment at all. I'd suggest that the horse's crossing time should be 14 hours, at least. Then the caravan takes 32 hours to cross - making only rashest try to cross the causeway, for what comes out of the swamp at night.... Alternatively, they could try and push through in one long stretch (32 hours is doable), but making this run would be foolhardy, dangerous, and against all advice to the contrary - unless you pull it off. Then you are skilled, lucky, and brave. Though mainly just lucky.

 

[jdavis]

Maybe the Lalaton fishermen tend to go out to the main shoals, which are halfway between Lalaton and Mor's End, catch a load, then sail south to the city. They spend about nine hours getting to the main fishing area, then take it south to the city. This takes the pressure off the fishermen in the city, makes Lalaton worthwhile in terms of trade with the city, and means the fish don't spoil.

Does Kul Moren get supplied by Lalaton? I didn't think dwarves liked fish....

How far is it to cross the swamp? I remember 14 hours been given as time for a desperate caravaner. I'd say this should be longer - otherwise it's too short to cross on horseback. A light horse could race across in 1/3 of the time - that's about 4.7 hrs (page 143 of the PHB). This means the swamp is hardly an impediment at all. I'd suggest that the horse's crossing time should be 14 hours, at least. Then the caravan takes 32 hours to cross - making only rashest try to cross the causeway, for what comes out of the swamp at night.... Alternatively, they could try and push through in one long stretch (32 hours is doable), but making this run would be foolhardy, dangerous, and against all advice to the contrary - unless you pull it off. Then you are skilled, lucky, and brave. Though mainly just lucky.

I would figure the Swamp would be quite large going south but the caravan route just cuts across the edge of it where it meets the lake. If you cross in mass or you cross showing a heavy guard you can make it, Goblins are basically cowards and the Orcs don't have the numbers. Several large caravans may bunch up together while crossing the swamp so they can combine their guards.

 

[Conaill]

I'd suggest that the horse's crossing time should be 14 hours, at least. Then the caravan takes 32 hours to cross - making only rashest try to cross the causeway, for what comes out of the swamp at night...

I have no problem making the swamp larger to cross. I would make it no longer than 12 hours by horse. That's 54 miles, 36 hours by caravan. (14 hours by horse would mean 42 hours by caravan, not 32)

Anything over 8 hours per day counts as a "forced march" and requires Con checks each hour to avoid taking damage, so even by horse this would be highly dangerous. 32 straight by wagon would be virtually impossible without magical help.

 

[jdavis]

If you know basically how big the lake is then you can figure out how long the trail is because it pretty much hugs the shoreline, it never goes deep into the swamp it follows the shoreline. If the corner edge of the swamp is more than 50 miles long then the whole swamp would be hundreds and hundreds of miles deep towards the south and over a hundred miles wide. Your getting into a everglades size swamp (if not bigger). 50 miles along the shore means that 1/4th the shore of the lake is a swamp or the same distance given from Mor's End to Lalaton, that is just the corner edge of the swamp.

 

[GladiusNP]

I have no problem making the swamp larger to cross. I would make it no longer than 12 hours by horse. That's 54 miles, 36 hours by caravan. (14 hours by horse would mean 42 hours by caravan, not 32)

Anything over 8 hours per day counts as a "forced march" and requires Con checks each hour to avoid taking damage, so even by horse this would be highly dangerous. 32 straight by wagon would be virtually impossible without magical help.

Sounds good! 12 hours by horse, and that's a fast one. Makes it a dangerous propect to go south, which is an effective barrier to keep low-level PC's from taking off through the swamp. Sorry about the calculations. Fifty miles makes a nice figure as well, easy to remember (though it is a little over this.)

With regards to a forced march, I'd say no one's going to seriously try this.... Is that alright with everyone? Maybe in the three hundred year history of Mor's End, only a few trips have been made - on the order of only two or three. Pull it off, and you are a legend. Most just die. Is that what we want?

If so, then fifty-four miles it is.

 

[Lalato]

The lake is only 120 miles long. If the swamp is 50 miles wide... that makes it nearly half the length of the lake. That doesn't make any geographical sense. If the swamp is that big, it would divert a lot of water from the lake.

I would say the northern edge of the swamp is between 20 to 30 miles wide. The far side of the swamp from the city is somewhat hilly and lightly forested. That way... even if a caravan gets past the swamp, they can still be ambushed in the forested hills beyond.

There is a small tower at the edge of the swamp and hills, but it is rarely manned as the Outland Rangers are on patrol. Still... some caravans use the tower as a place to spend the night before they make the next days journey through the hills.

The forested hills give way to rolling pastures. Here the caravans are safest because they can see an attack coming for miles. There is another small tower here at the edge of the forested hills. This one is a little better kept than the one near the swamp. The caravans usually trek another day or two beyond the forested hills before turning south.

The southern route through the swamp needs to be a viable route for caravans to take. As I've previously stated... I disagree with the current caravan routes on the map, but I'm willing to go with it as long as the southern route is still viable... dangerous, but viable. A dangerous southern route can provide plot hooks for tons of adventures... but if it is too dangerous no one will ever use it... and there for no plot hooks.

--sam

 

[jdavis]

Here I'll pull up a older map for reference here. Lalaton is 48 miles from Mor's End. What this map lacks is a route going North-North East from Mor's End and a pass through the mountains where the route continues going North West from Lalaton and the South West route crosses over to the big island to go into southgate on the city maps. If the North West edge of the swamp is 54 miles then it is much farther than drawn and the other side is farther away than Lalaton is in the north.

 

[jdavis]

one more for reference so we don't have to jump back and forth.

 

[Conaill]

And one more reference: Mor's End is about 7000 feet end-to-end, or about 1.3 miles. The width of the swamp on those maps is about the same. Do we really want to have a swamp you can walk across in just over half an hour?

Mor's End is quite small. If we really want the swamp to be a significant threat/obstacle, it'll have to be quite a big larger than in the maps above.

You're right that 50 miles is probably too much. And 1.3 miles is presumably too small. Do we want to make it 8 hours by an average horse? That would be 24 miles. Still too wide to cross by caravan in a single day. Or do we want to make it a "forced march" by caravan, say 12 hours? That would be 18 miles across.

Either way, that ferry crossing to the southern trade route will need to be redrawn as well. I don't think we want to make the big island *that* long.

Just as a reminder, here's the distances per 8-hour day for the swamp:

Walk, trackless: 12 miles
Walk, on causeway: 18 miles
Caravan: 12 miles
Horse: 24 miles
Fast horse: 36 miles

 

[Lalato]

Yes... I think a forced march by caravan works really well. Even after the caravan gets past the swamp, it still has threats from the forested hills beyond. The forested hills should take another forced march to cross. Beyond that the way is fairly clear, but still dangerous.

--sam