EN World City Project: Government Affairs Submissions

[Conaill]

Some more statistics from "A Magical Medieval Society" related to universities and schools, scaled for the average city of 10,000:

profesors: 3
teachers: 6
historians: 4
sages/scholars: 5
librarians: 4
students: 100

PS: I've got many more of these, but right now I have to retype them by hand because of problems with the MMS pdf file. Expeditious Retreat Press is working something out though.

Here's another data point for the thieves guild:

thieves:100

This conflicts somewhat with the DMG demographics of ~50 classed Rogues. Guess the remainder could be Com1's. (see my post on the Thieves Guild in the Questions & comments thread).

 

[Krug]

How about calling it an Arcaneum? (I think that's from Warcraft). At least the mage-part of it. Perhaps the city is specialized in craft-focused magicks and this is where they receive their training. With the low # of elves, I don't see it as being a core center for wizardry.

 

[Lalato]

Conaill... Nothing you just posted convinces me that there would be a Mage School or Guild. I guess I see it entirely differently than you do... in the end we may just have to "agree to disagree" on this one.

Sorceror, Wizard:
1x9th level, 1x8, 2x5, 2x4, 8x2, 16x1

This tells me that there are too few mages to support a school... although, I will concede, that this number may support a small guild...

I would think that sorcerors would be less apt to join guilds and schools since their talents are innate. Wizards, of course, are entirely different. They need a library and a way to share spells.

profesors: 3
teachers: 6
historians: 4
sages/scholars: 5
librarians: 4
students: 100

This tells me the distribution of these types, not necessarily that they are all in the same building.

Sorry if I sound argumentative about this. I don't mean to argue. I like the flow of ideas that's coming from this project... This one just doesn't make sense to me.

--sam

 

[Hodag]

Who does Lady Kelvin owe fealty to?

Going off the academia rag for a moment, it seems that Mor's End is an independent city. Where are the city's defenses drawn from, what other cities does Lady Kelvin have treaties with?

 

[yragthecareful]

As to the University thoughts...

I agree that Mor's End is too small to support a large (or even medium) university. But, with that thought out there...what about this.

Sometimes universities have small branches of the same university in different towns. They get some of their support from the main university but are located in far off regions because of specific reasons.

A small university off-shoot could have sprung up in the town due to fact that the magical river sapphires needed studying. At first they could have sent a single profession, but then he requested more people and equipment as other interesting finds developed. This small university could then focus on:

The study of the river sapphires and the exploration of source of their innate magic enhancing abilities.

The study of the warrens below the city. It has attracted a few archeologists to the area.

The study of the silk-giving jelly fish which are unique to this area only. This has attract a mage and a sage.

So the university has a reason for being in this frontier city. The teachers, though from different fields of study, could have combined their library and laboratory resources to save on expenses. A few local experts also give lectures at the school regarding the unique clays in the area, demonstrations on pottery, etc. A dwarven miner also teaches a number of languages at the school: dwarven, orc, goblin, gnome.

The school would then be the right size for the population and would have a reason to exist.

The school could be an old manner with adjorning tower, nothing big and sprawling. Supports 9 academics, 4 servants and 20 students at any one time.

Teachers:
1 gnome wizard (gemcutter) who specializes in the river sapphires.
1 human sorcerer who also studys the sapphires.
2 human sages who spend their time combing the underground warrens for unusual artifacts.
1 dwarven miner who spends his time teaching languages and helping the humans sages out with their archeological digs.
1 elven wizard who studies the silk fish.
1 human sage who assists the elven wizard.
2 human craftsmen who teach at the school parttime, their intent is to find exceptional apprentices in pottery/glazing so that their industry can maintain the high standard that it already has.

What do you all think...anyone want to take this further? Be my guest
gary

yragthecareful
aka. wizardoftheplains

 

[Krug]

Re: Who does Lady Kelvin owe fealty to?

Going off the academia rag for a moment, it seems that Mor's End is an independent city. Where are the city's defenses drawn from, what other cities does Lady Kelvin have treaties with?

Well because we're trying to build a city for use in any campaign, we'll leave the second question open. The city should be able to defend itself, particularly with dwarvish (and mercenary) help.

 

[Krug]

As to the University thoughts...

I agree that Mor's End is too small to support a large (or even medium) university. But, with that thought out there...what about this.

Sometimes universities have small branches of the same university in different towns. They get some of their support from the main university but are located in far off regions because of specific reasons.

A small university off-shoot could have sprung up in the town due to fact that the magical river sapphires needed studying. At first they could have sent a single profession, but then he requested more people and equipment as other interesting finds developed. This small university could then focus on:

The study of the river sapphires and the exploration of source of their innate magic enhancing abilities.

The study of the warrens below the city. It has attracted a few archeologists to the area.

The study of the silk-giving jelly fish which are unique to this area only. This has attract a mage and a sage.

So the university has a reason for being in this frontier city. The teachers, though from different fields of study, could have combined their library and laboratory resources to save on expenses. A few local experts also give lectures at the school regarding the unique clays in the area, demonstrations on pottery, etc. A dwarven miner also teaches a number of languages at the school: dwarven, orc, goblin, gnome.

The school would then be the right size for the population and would have a reason to exist.

The school could be an old manner with adjorning tower, nothing big and sprawling. Supports 9 academics, 4 servants and 20 students at any one time.

Teachers:
1 gnome wizard (gemcutter) who specializes in the river sapphires.
1 human sorcerer who also studys the sapphires.
2 human sages who spend their time combing the underground warrens for unusual artifacts.
1 dwarven miner who spends his time teaching languages and helping the humans sages out with their archeological digs.
1 elven wizard who studies the silk fish.
1 human sage who assists the elven wizard.
2 human craftsmen who teach at the school parttime, their intent is to find exceptional apprentices in pottery/glazing so that their industry can maintain the high standard that it already has.

What do you all think...anyone want to take this further? Be my guest
gary

yragthecareful
aka. wizardoftheplains

Hmm.. doesn't sound too bad gary. It looks quite plausible. It's more akin to the schools found in Ars Magica. Perhaps there might even be more guards and servants as well.

 

[Tallow]

Assorted comments

I've just finished reading this thread today, and thought I'd throw a couple more thoughts into the fray.

1. Its been mentioned that Lady Kelvin is mysterious, rarely seen in public. It's been mentioned that her children and grandchildren have sorcerous abilities. It has also been mentioned that Lady Kelvin disappears 3 months out of the year. What if Lady Kelvin were some sort of "other being" other than a human, masquerading as a human? Obvious choices are Dragon (although the half-dragon features of her children and grandchildren would most likely be quite obvious), Half-dragon, Genesai, Genie, Celestial or Half-Celestial, etc. Or is it some sort of curse? Perhaps she is the last true-blood of her line?

2. Another group of "nobles" that should have some political clout and/or power in the city, are the ranchers. If Cattle is one of the major exports, then there are probably a significant number of ranches surrounding the cities. The ranch owners could be similar to a "Ben Cartwrite" type land-owner, with several, thousand acre cattle ranches around the area. Poaching and sabotage of fellow ranches and herds could be a big plot hook and/or problem in the city. This contention between the Ranchers actually proves a blessing on the city, as the competition actually breeds better cattle. Lately though, the heavy taxes on the Ranchers (because of all the extra security provided by the city due to the high volume of poaching and sabotage -- is Silas Pimm or some non-related Noble House looking to gain or keep power involved?) have caused dissension amongst the higher ranking ranchers. If they were to all band together, they could viritually put a stop to all trade into or out of Mor's End as they control much of the land surrounding the city.

3. The university doesn't have to be an official or voluntary thing. Many might argue that Nobles would want a place to send their children to learn, but back in medieval times, nobles families often employed their own tutors for such things. So common and even some higher education (knowledge skills) are most likely taught by various teachers employed by individuals or individual families. Often the nanny or seneschal/castellan would play the role of tutor of teacher. The same goes if a family wants their son to learn to be a wizard. They hire a wizard to teach their son. Those not of the noble caste might go to the local wizard tower and beg to become an apprentice.

What would be interesting though, is if there was a University of "Hard Knocks" so to speak. What if, rather than just imprisoning folk, Lady Kelvin threw the lesser criminals, or those she felt might be reformable, into a "reform" school. It isn't really a specific building per say, but these criminals are sent into indentured servitude (apprenticeship) with various craft masters around town, with a Wizard who needs a particular type of apprentice, a Bard who feels sorry for the orphan who stole bread, or directly into military service. Before being handed off to any of a number of various masters though, each criminal could be sent through a "basic training" regimen. One which, if it doesn't break them and remold them, will certainly alter their priorities in life. A select few could even be chosen for a special elite military unit, the Gray Squad, that is used for clandestine solutions to the more vigorous problems of the city.

Andy Christian

 

[Lalato]

Tallow/Andy... that's good stuff...

1. Its been mentioned that Lady Kelvin is mysterious, rarely seen in public. It's been mentioned that her children and grandchildren have sorcerous abilities. It has also been mentioned that Lady Kelvin disappears 3 months out of the year. What if Lady Kelvin were some sort of "other being" other than a human, masquerading as a human? Obvious choices are Dragon (although the half-dragon features of her children and grandchildren would most likely be quite obvious), Half-dragon, Genesai, Genie, Celestial or Half-Celestial, etc. Or is it some sort of curse? Perhaps she is the last true-blood of her line?

Hmmm... that's an interesting take on things. My only concern is that it would be difficult to place her in many campaigns if she were otherworldly. Perhaps we could stat her both ways... and let DMs decide how they want to use her.

2. Another group of "nobles" that should have some political clout and/or power in the city, are the ranchers. If Cattle is one of the major exports, then there are probably a significant number of ranches surrounding the cities. The ranch owners could be similar to a "Ben Cartwrite" type land-owner, with several, thousand acre cattle ranches around the area. Poaching and sabotage of fellow ranches and herds could be a big plot hook and/or problem in the city. This contention between the Ranchers actually proves a blessing on the city, as the competition actually breeds better cattle. Lately though, the heavy taxes on the Ranchers (because of all the extra security provided by the city due to the high volume of poaching and sabotage -- is Silas Pimm or some non-related Noble House looking to gain or keep power involved?) have caused dissension amongst the higher ranking ranchers. If they were to all band together, they could viritually put a stop to all trade into or out of Mor's End as they control much of the land surrounding the city.

That's excellent. Ven Cardrite (spelling is intentional)... I would definitely like to see this NPC... along with his three sons, and their faithful man-servant, Haup Seeng.

The local ranchers raise Argali sheep. These sheep are based on the real world sheep of central asia that can grow up to 5 feet tall. Perhaps the group could be called The Argali Syndicate.

3. The university doesn't have to be an official or voluntary thing. Many might argue that Nobles would want a place to send their children to learn, but back in medieval times, nobles families often employed their own tutors for such things. So common and even some higher education (knowledge skills) are most likely taught by various teachers employed by individuals or individual families. Often the nanny or seneschal/castellan would play the role of tutor of teacher. The same goes if a family wants their son to learn to be a wizard. They hire a wizard to teach their son. Those not of the noble caste might go to the local wizard tower and beg to become an apprentice.

This is more the direction I see education going in Mor's End... Tutors and hired teachers works well for me.

Wizo'plains (aka yragthecareful)... An offshoot of another university... that's a pretty good compromise. I think it could work, but since it seems to be more of a research school... would there really be that much community outreach in the form of crafts training? Most guilds have their own apprenticeship programs. They don't need a "university" to send them talent.

What would be interesting though, is if there was a University of "Hard Knocks" so to speak. What if, rather than just imprisoning folk, Lady Kelvin threw the lesser criminals, or those she felt might be reformable, into a "reform" school. It isn't really a specific building per say, but these criminals are sent into indentured servitude (apprenticeship) with various craft masters around town, with a Wizard who needs a particular type of apprentice, a Bard who feels sorry for the orphan who stole bread, or directly into military service. Before being handed off to any of a number of various masters though, each criminal could be sent through a "basic training" regimen. One which, if it doesn't break them and remold them, will certainly alter their priorities in life. A select few could even be chosen for a special elite military unit, the Gray Squad, that is used for clandestine solutions to the more vigorous problems of the city.

I don't know about you all, but I like it. Imagine if the very word "university" had a bad connotation in Mor's End. "He just got out of university" would have a meaning akin to "He just got out of jail".

--sam

 

[jdavis]

Working off stuff posted above. (Tried to take into account all previous post in thread.) (note: may need editing if information in thread is changed or not used.)

3. The Military.

The local military is based off of the original military unit that was brought here during the town’s infancy. Known as “The 1000”, based on the size of the original force, the present size of the standing army actually varies, normally numbering between 800 and 1000 trained soldiers and 2000 or so member’s of the civil militia which can be called up from the general population when there is great need. The military is broken down into three categories, the Castilian’s elite guard, The City Guard and the City Watch. The Guard and the Watch are under a single commander (presently Sebastiano Palmora) but the Elite guard reports to the Castilian personally.

The Elite Guard

The elite guard is a small handpicked unit whose sole purpose is to protect Lady Kelvin. They report directly to the Castilian Stangus and are mainly made up of the best archers the city has to offer and a small cavalry group for when Lady Kelvin leaves the castle. The elite are seen as ceremonial by many of the citizens but they are well disciplined and well led and are entirely devoted to Lady Kelvin, they are trained to attack and kill without thought to their own person and will react instantly to any order given by Lady Kelvin or Castilian Stangus. There is a rumored special group within the elite that act as Lady Kelvin’s secret police and assassins when need be but this rumor is unsubstantiated, and if it does exist most of the elite themselves are not aware of it.

The City Guard

The city guard is the force that mans the city walls and is responsible for traffic in and out of the city gates. They are the rank and file of “The 1000”, composed mostly of infantry with a small cavalry group, a special group assigned to watch the docks and a small group of rangers who act as scouts and preserve order in the surrounding countryside. The cavalry units normally ride patrol sweeps of the area immediately outside the city proper and are in charge of keeping the caravan routes open and clear of bandits. The special dock patrol is a trained in ship-to-ship combat and naval tactics. They have two small patrol vessels that patrol the harbor and the mouth of the lake. The rangers are a small independent group that roams the area outside the city keeping order and watching for silk fish poachers along the lake. The rangers no longer have enough personnel to patrol the whole lake properly and instead use stealth and surprise to keep silk fish poachers fearful and off balance. Outside the wall the rangers are also considered extensions of the town law and act as judges settling local disputes, their judgments are considered law in the countryside.

The City Watch

The city watch is the group that is in charge of patrolling the city proper and keeping peace. They are broken up into two groups the watch and the detective group. The watch mounts regular patrols of the section of the city they are attached to, keeping order and busting heads when need be. The detectives roam local areas dressed as normal civilians, they keep a low profile and watch for signs of trouble. When they see the first signs of trouble they immediately call in a watch patrol to take care of the situation. They are also responsible for investigating small crimes and robberies. The nicer the section of town the more likely a watch patrol is around but the detectives spend much of their time in the lower class sections looking for signs of trouble. There is great animosity by the city watch towards the use of clay golems to patrol the city. They view this as an unneeded and extravagant expense and view the noble families who are responsible for these patrols as out of date throwbacks who swagger about trying to look important. They feel they are the ones doing the true work and the golems are only for show. Even when one of the golems is useful or effective you will not hear any praise from the men of the city watch. There is also friendly rivalry between the city watch and the city guard, as both try to out shine the other, both sides keep track of how many of each have been raised to the elite guard and elite guardsmen never forget from which branch they were raised.