EN World City Project: Government Affairs Submissions

[wizardoftheplains]

Re: Re: EN World City Project: Government Affairs Submissions

Has the university been talked about someplace else, or could that be detailed here (thinking more of the form of the place first, before adding in any intrigue)? I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the other threads for this project. Any details already established?

Go ahead and detail it here. Part of it's funds could come from the City Government, with private donors and government powers slightly at odds

 

[Knightfall]

Re: Re: Re: EN World City Project: Government Affairs Submissions

Go ahead and detail it here. Part of it's funds could come from the City Government, with private donors and government powers slightly at odds

The Mages Guild would probably also fall under this category, in my mind.

Wiz, do you think there is room for both a Mages Guild and Bards Guild in Mor's End?

{EDIT}

Also, what's the hospital and temple situation going to be like in a fantasy city of this size? Anyone got the demographics on that.

Also its time to consider public works - sewer system, river and dock maintenance (and taxation), street cleaning and maintenance, etc. After all, magic can only do so much and I'm pretty sure it was decided that Mor's End is going to be fairly low magic.

Make's me think that a full Bards Guild might be too much to add at this point. Perhaps there is a small Theatrehouse of Bards with connections to the Thieves Guild.

 

[Krug]

No details thus far on a university... There is, however, a Bookseller with a fairly extensive library in the Crafts and Trade thread.

A university would be interesting... What do you have in mind?

--sam

Perhaps a school. A university sounds like it'll take far too much space in a city of 10k. (yes, lets not get into the size issue again. it's becoming almost... phallic.)

 

[wizardoftheplains]

perhaps a small, private school for rich folk

 

[Tonguez]

Re: Re: Re: Re: EN World City Project: Government Affairs Submissions

Make's me think that a full Bards Guild might be too much to add at this point. Perhaps there is a small Theatrehouse of Bards with connections to the Thieves Guild.

In the Celtic Tradition Bards were part of the Omaan (the College of Bards) which had links to the Druids.

I'd presume that the Bards Guild and Mages Guild are both autonomous Colleges of the University specialising in those two areas.

Now Historically Universities were generally Church organisations wherein young men were trained in Theology and Philosophy (hence PHD = Doctor of Philosophy). In a fantasy world the Mages Guild means that the Church has not got such a monopoly but is still probably influential to some degree.

ergo The University of Mors End is governed by a board made up of representation from the Mage Guild, The Temple of Light, the Noble Houses and the Council of Warders. This is an oversight committee and employs the Chancellor (The Head of the University).

The University proper is made up of various 'Colleges' specialising in a particular Discipline amongst these is the College of Bards, the College of Mages, the College of Merchants and Artisans and the College of Theology. Each College has it own Master and is for all intents a distinct self contained institution in its own right setting rules and policy as it sees fit.
The College Masters however meet regularily in the Chancellors Committee where academic programmes and operation of the University as a whole is discussed.

The Chancellor in conjunction with the College Master employs the Teaching Masters (Academic staff) whereas all other functions at the College level (including the Halls of Residence) is managed by the College Master.

A Note on Layout: The University is a huge and sprawling creature each College is a small community unto itself with its own Halls of Residence, Libraries, lecture Theatres and Studyrooms arranged around a central courtyard. Between the Colleges is gardens, roads and even a few Public houses and Stalls catering to the demands of Students.

Anyway - just some ideas

 

[Knightfall]

Tonguez, the problem with having sprawling university is that this is a small city.

Hmm, here's an idea. We could make that large island near the city home to such a univeristy. Basically a large town in it's own right where most of the staff and students live.

Of course, we might also want that land for agriculture.

Just some thoughts...

KF72

 

[Lalato]

I really think a Mage School/Guild is a bit much. A Mage School/Guild assumes

1. a certain number of mages in the city.
2. said mages are organized.
3. said mages are all somewhat Lawful or Neutral.
4. said mages have no desire for total control of the city.
5. said mages use their powers sparingly, at best.
6. said mages do not aid in the creation of public works... or in the maintenance of the city.

Basically, if you allow a Mage Guild in the city, it completely throws the balance of power off. High level mages are the most powerful people in the game. It only takes a couple to decimate a city the size of Mor's End.

On the other end of the spectrum... if the Mages are all "good" guys. Why wouldn't they aid the city with building sewers, bridges, harbors, street lamps, street cleaning, etc.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not opposed to the idea of a university... I just don't think it should be tied to magic. If you want a Mage School, it should be outside the city limits... perhaps even on the far side of the lake.

--sam

p.s. I just re-read what I wrote above... sorry if it sounds like a rant...

 

[Conaill]

lalato: one or two 9th level wizards aren't going to level a city of this size! Check out my post earlier in this thread about the distribution of levels for the various classes. Here's the relevant ones again:

Sorceror, Wizard:
1x9th level, 1x8, 2x5, 2x4, 8x2, 16x1

Expert:
1x15, 1x12, 2x8, 2x6, 4x4, 4x3, 16x2, 32x1

We definitely don't have enough mages for a separate mage school, but they I think they will tend to band together into a guild to protect their common interests, and they could form part of university.

Let's say about 2/3 of the Wizards are involved in the University. That's about 20. Or about 10 if you assume the Wiz1's are (grad?) students. A faculty of 10 is plenty for a small department (actually, that would probably make a large department in a medieval university).

I figure the Sorcerors aren't the studious kind, so they wouldn't be part of any university (but might belong to the Guild). Then there's also a bunch of Adepts, but I think those would be considered second-rate by the Wizards...

There's about twice as many Experts as Wizards, but I gues a smaller fraction of them would be involved in the university (probably too busy with their own enterprise). Let's say another 10 Experts on the faculty.

That makes about 20 faculty in total, 50-50 Wizards and Experts, with perhaps the odd Sorceror (combat magic?), Adept, Bard (history?), or Druid (ecology?). Sounds like a university to me. Nothing of the size of modern universities, but it's probably about right for a small, second-rate university in a small city. Call it a school if you like the sound of that better...

 

[GladiusNP]

Not to sound negative, (although with that said, here comes my criticism), but a university seems out of place in Mor's End. It's a trade city. The ruler, Lady Kelvin, probably can't spend lots and lots of gold on supporting a university/ school, since most of the guilds/ wealthy merchants, etc, are really not that interested. If it was the capital city of a kingdom, then it would be a different story, but I don't think Mor's End has lots of cash reserves for schools.

Also, who's going to attend? Not native kids - few would be rich enough to enjoy the luxury of study rather than training for an apprenticeship. I'd have to say that a university of only twenty teachers isn't going to attract lots of out-of-towners, they'd probably want to study elsewhere.

With all of that said, I hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers - if people decide in the end that yes, it would really add something to the city, then I'm happy to go along with that. I just think that it doesn't fit terribly well.

 

[CrazyMage]

Couple of quick things before I go to bed:

I think the university should be rather modest in size, but that gives this possibility--perhaps it is a fairly new school, and there is a faction/wealthy few that wants to promote it in order to gain fame and power for the city. Others see it as a major waste of public funds (as much as public funds are used to support it) and actively oppose it. Put a few retired wizards on staff, and the town has to listen to the needs of the university.

If you do go with a larger university, how does the city react to all the students and their misbehavior, a question that comes up where I live now. One additional "plus" to a larger school--more taverns, because students = bar patrons! What D&D city doesn't need more taverns?


As for colleges in said university:
-If there's any sort of wealthy elite, there's an excuse for a theater/opera house/bard college to provide "sophisticated" entertainment.
-Theology, medicine and law were the major emphases in the medieval university. In a world with clerics, perhaps the first two are combined or at least have major overlap. Clerics teaching classes might lead to some feeling resentful at the church for gettin too involved in the university and "tainting" the students. Law would be useful for the bureaucracy of Mor's End, and (unless this is a city-state) the larger governmental structures.
-Science (alchemy/chemistry, astronomy, physics)
-Humanities (history, language, literature)
--Other? One man departments of crazy old scholars?

Just found this at http://www.robertpascoe.net/UniHist/lectures/THEME03.html

The medieval universities mostly comprised four faculties: arts, theology, law, and medicine. The Arts Faculty was the most important because it provided the civil servants who made it possible to improve and expand civil administrations right across Europe, especially as the princes and other secular leaders developed their governmental systems. The emergence of better styles of government can be attributed to this university training. What the four faculties had in common was there did not exist organised guilds in their areas where knowledge and skills could be passed down from masters to apprentices. This also explains why universities did not venture into areas such as shipbuilding, architecture, or veterinary science, however important these areas were to the economic functioning of the medieval world, because training in these fields was already controlled by the guilds.



Not having luck finding any sizes of schools/faculty as a historical example for our planning.

I didn't think my little question would stir up so much discussion