EN World GameStore Closing

[sjmiller]

My mistake, then. I had seen the link at a few different sites and it looked real enough. I apologize for spreading what turned out to be a rumor.

Not a problem. I was very concerned when I first saw it mentioned so I rushed over to the SJG forum and posted the question. I am thankful that the folks there quickly answered this.

I also just went back to e23.rpgnow.com and it is no longer a valid link (403 error). Looks like the word has been spread to the right sources.

 

[Cergorach]

So you're saying that JGBrowning is just flat-out lying?

No, he's saying your assumptions are wrong.

It's actually more along the lines of:
The owners of DTRPG can change what they're asking to what RPGNOW is asking, thus loosing a lot of money.
The owner of RPGNOW can change what they're asking to what DTRPG is asking, thus gaining a lot of money.
I highly doubt that the owners of DTRPG want to see profits decline, and i asume that the owner of RPGNOW wants to see profits increase.
Add to that, that they now control around 90% of the RPG pdf sales, they can afford to be less nice to publishers, it's not asif the big sellers can afford to walk away...

 

[Morrus]

So you're saying that JGBrowning is just flat-out lying?

He says: "When the switch is flipped, I'm losing 10%, my vendor is going to gain my loss. And that's going to happen everyday, for every sale, until the site growth generates 15% above and beyond what DTRPG and rpgnow.com was already growing." And his math seems to match the figures publicly posted by OBS.

Or perhaps you're simply saying that OBS doesn't even realize what they're doing? They're just unintentionally screwing over their publishers and were completely unaware that they were inflating their own profits? I suppose that's possible. Not likely, but possible I suppose.

If you're going to continue putting words into peoples' mouths (first OBS and the mine), you will be required to leave this thread. Your opinion is welcome; rudeness is not. Please consider this a final warning.

As per ENW policy, if you have a problem with moderation, take it up privately.

 

[Jdvn1]

Warehouse 23 is definitely viable, but they don't do as much d20 business as RPGNow, DTRPG, and ENGS.

Regarding Monopolies: not only are there other PDF retailers, but people usually don't get as much up in arms over a monopoly on a luxury item.

Monopolies are measured by market share, not number of competitors. And, it doesn't matter whether or not the product is a luxury item for a merger to be blocked.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I'll repeat this, since it's getting missed in all this chicken-little-ing:

This is NOT DTRPG taking over RPGNow. This is a new company, owned in a 50/50 partnership between James and PSI (the owners of DTRPG), now owning both sites.

OK, so it's ONE company, who will operate RPGNow and DTRPG as shell companies.

Got it.

Let me do the math for you: On one side of the 50/50 split, you have James Mathe, who owned Minion Development, which ran RPGNow. On the other side of the 50/50 split, you have *multiple* shareholders in PSI, who ran DTRPG.

Who have now merged their operation. OK

James isn't going anywhere. This is not a DTRPG takeover.

You're right. This is a merger, with the new company that owns both operating them as shell companies, authorized distributors, affiliate companies, whatever.

The new company is charging the same rates as DTRPG, but most of the functionality will be RPGNow's model, as I understand it.

Got it.

RPGNow's model, DTRPG's rates.

Take a deep breath. Calm down. It's a merger. It's not armageddon. Yes, some publishers will be paying more for their sales. I'm one of them. But I'll be blunt: If a *maximum* of a 10% increase is so much that the publisher feels the need to raise prices, then, simply put, they had priced their product too low to start with.

You know, I've heard from a lot of people how PDF's are a small pie with only so many slices. Having done my own, worked for about a half dozen companies, 10% IS a big deal, especially when taken off the top.

The thing that really burns me, is I'm paying an extra 10%, and I still haven't heard what, if anything, that 10% buys me.

Feel free to discount my opinion, since I handle customer service emails for RPGNow, which, for some, makes me suspect.

I just noticed that the three big boys got together, made a merger behind the scenes, jacked up some people's rate by 10%, and expect them to be happy with it.

You take a dime out of every dollar a company makes, and they're gonna be upset.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

That aside, THIS is not a monopoly. The current store fronts are merging. That doesn't constitute a monopoly.

So the remaining comparable competitors in the market are ... ?

Anyone else CAN start a new competitor any time they want to.

Sure they can. And the chances of them doing so while being able to grant a competitive portion of the market are ... ?

Who gets to say that the owners of the sites should be denied their right to do with their property as they wish?

I think you're confused. Nobody is discussing what the RIGHTS are of the parties involved. They're debating the proposed points that this is good for the market, won't affect profits or prices, doesn't infringe on the sort of competition that drives a market, etc. I don't think you'll find anyone here saying that James and Steve are beyond their RIGHTS.

Beyond that, if they even start trying to "bend you over", a) you can walk away and b) the hypothetical more profits would immediately create interest in new competition.

So, if Apple and Microsoft were to merge how easy do you think it would be for a start-up to jump in and introduce a competative OS alternative to the market? Because that's essentially what we're talking about here: the two companies that, BY FAR, hold the majority of the market under their influence, merging. I don't think you're quite aware of how the previous competition between RPGnow and Drivethru affected the market, for those companies and for the publishers involved. That competition had a very real influence on what both sites offered in order to gain publisher business (or focus thereof) and also affected publisher marketing strategies.

The world is not ending. The world does not even have the sniffles.

All because you say so, right? It's a tad different if you've actually got money involved.

I'm not saying there isn't some good that can come from this, but right now that is all the unproven speculation of expanding exposure and a growing market that cannot currently be factually tied to anything. It's all just smoke at the moment. On the other hand, the decrease in royalty returns is very real. The change to marketing presence is very real. The ramifications of lost competition are very real (and are not a matter of speculation, as any business student can tell you.) The changes to PDF publisher products are very real due to immediate reductions to our bottom line until (if ever) such a time as the exposure increase begins to pay off.

Sorry, but things are nowhere even remotely as cut and dried, let alone smiles and giggles, as you seem to think they are.

 

[Umbran]

Something just occurred to me...

The big to-do in here is that OBS is taking a larger cut off the top from the publishers.

The assumption is that they are simply going to take that and line their pockets - that nothig else changes. But that is an assumption...

What if, rather than take that as increased profit, they take it as money they intend to put back into the business? What if it is used to pay for improved features, improved support, improved marketing and advertising.

How this all turns out very much depends on what OBS does with the extra cash. If they reinvest it, the publishers may well see a return larger than what they put in. But nobody here knows what they plan to do. Everyone speculates, nobody knows...

 

[Vocenoctum]

So, let me see if I've got this straight. OBS thinks that:

(a) The merger will produce at least a 15% increase in sales.
(b) OBS doesn't want the publishers to benefit from that increase in sales, so they've jacked up the publishers' commissions so that OBS will be the only ones benefitting from the 15% increase in sales.

Hmm... I see why OBS thinks this is a great thing. I'm not sure why you think the publishers should be jumping for joy.

Well, remember that the big 2 merging at this point maintains the overhead of both old companies. I'm sure it won't last in the long run as they trim people or send them to other jobs, but they may have figured they were doing publishers a favor by charging them 35% instead of both old fees. (60%)

Mind you, I can't imagine that either company had a large enough crew to make it a big deal, and I also imagine that either site alone had more than enough capability to handle the "increased traffic".

It's just a consumer perspective really, but I don't see how this "merger" matters froma technical standpoint. It seems more of a "there's less competition, so there will be more sales for the one than either of the two" deal. I don't see how either company needed the others resources.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

I highly doubt that the owners of DTRPG want to see profits decline, and i asume that the owner of RPGNOW wants to see profits increase.

But if they're going to expand the market as they've said to publishers who are worried about the royalty increase, wouldn't that compensate? After all, if the arguement is supposed to appease publishers who don't like seeing their royalties shrink, how does the same point not hold in reverse?

Add to that, that they now control around 90% of the RPG pdf sales, they can afford to be less nice to publishers, it's not asif the big sellers can afford to walk away...

Which brings us back to the whole "monopoly allows for direct market influence" arguement that was stated earlier and shot down as ludicrous.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Something just occurred to me...

The big to-do in here is that OBS is taking a larger cut off the top from the publishers.

The assumption is that they are simply going to take that and line their pockets - that nothig else changes. But that is an assumption...

What if, rather than take that as increased profit, they take it as money they intend to put back into the business? What if it is used to pay for improved features, improved support, improved marketing and advertising.

How this all turns out very much depends on what OBS does with the extra cash. If they reinvest it, the publishers may well see a return larger than what they put in. But nobody here knows what they plan to do. Everyone speculates, nobody knows...

I've asked twice...


Just what is this increase doing for ME? It's my pocket you're reaching in, what do I get out of this?

Increased advertising? Premium downloads? Author searches? Author bios? Company bios? Hosted company pages? Handjobs by a midget? WHAT? What am I getting out of this increase?